Credit cloning - Revision history

Furey: Upgrade template from nethack-360 to nethack-367. Verified monster carry capacities against monster carrying capacity, which was updated in February 2021. Verified M2_GREEDY monsters against 3.6.7 src/monst.c.

2024-06-04T04:43:28Z

Upgrade template from nethack-360 to nethack-367. Verified monster carry capacities against monster carrying capacity, which was updated in February 2021. Verified M2_GREEDY monsters against 3.6.7 src/monst.c.

Furey: /* Using hostile monsters */ wordsmithing

2024-06-04T04:40:22Z

‎Using hostile monsters: wordsmithing

Furey: Wordsmithing. Most of this article was written back when pets could steal a whole pile of gold, and it shows.

2024-06-04T04:38:10Z

Wordsmithing. Most of this article was written back when pets could steal a whole pile of gold, and it shows.

Furey: Add some high powered pets, for the lulz. Good luck keeping the shopkeeper alive!

2024-06-04T01:49:35Z

Add some high powered pets, for the lulz. Good luck keeping the shopkeeper alive!

Furey: /* Using pets */ The carry weight data came from an ODT spreadsheet last edited in May 2014. Stop doing that. Copy from Monster carrying capacity instead, heavy calculations done in February 2021. Also: delete minotaur etc, not needed.

2024-06-04T01:41:44Z

‎Using pets: The carry weight data came from an ODT spreadsheet last edited in May 2014. Stop doing that. Copy from Monster carrying capacity instead, heavy calculations done in February 2021. Also: delete minotaur etc, not needed.

Umbire the Phantom: /* Using hostile monsters */ fix

2024-03-10T15:42:13Z

‎Using hostile monsters: fix

Umbire the Phantom: potholes

2024-03-10T15:41:28Z

potholes

Umbire the Phantom: potholes

2024-02-18T10:15:53Z

potholes

Umbire the Phantom: pothole

2023-08-03T17:20:05Z

pothole

Umbire the Phantom at 02:12, 16 January 2020

2020-01-16T02:12:14Z

@@ Line 95: / Line 95: @@
 <references/>
 [[Category:Strategy]]
-{{nethack-360}}
+{{nethack-367}}

@@ Line 61: / Line 61: @@
 ===Using hostile monsters===
 {|class="prettytable"
-!Monsters which will pickup gold in shops
+!Monsters which will pick up gold in shops
 |-
 |[[Orc (monster class)|orcs]] and [[orc mummies]]
 |-
-|living [[Dwarf (monster attribute)|dwarves]] and [[dwarf mummies]]
+|[[Dwarf (monster attribute)|dwarves]] and [[dwarf mummies]]
 |-
 |[[Centaur (monster class)|centaurs]]

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 '''Credit cloning''' is the act of dropping [[gold]] in a shop to build up credit, and then removing the gold without erasing the credit. Then, the credit with the shopkeeper remains, and you have your gold back. There are several ways to accomplish this, mostly involving pets, but occasionally using hostile monsters as well. By repeatedly credit cloning and selling items to a shopkeeper, it is possible to get all of their gold, and then all of their items from the built-up credit.
-In [[NetHack 3.6.0]], you can no longer do this with loose gold, so you need to use a [[container]] to allow the gold to be stolen as a group. Most pets will only pick up a single piece of gold, with gold-loving monsters being the exception. This means a distinct advantage for [[Rogues]] and [[Archeologists]], who both start with an uncursed [[sack]], and can therefore employ the technique of credit cloning right from the start, while other classes have to acquire some kind of container first.
+Most pets will only pick up a single piece of gold, with gold-loving monsters being the exception. So you need to use a [[container]] to allow the gold to be stolen as a group.  This means a distinct advantage for [[Rogues]] and [[Archeologists]], who both start with an uncursed [[sack]], and can therefore employ the technique of credit cloning right from the start, while other classes have to acquire some kind of [[container]] first.
 ==Strategy==
 The [[strategy]] of '''credit cloning''' is simple:
 * Move all objects in the [[shop]] to a single pile. Drop a [[cursed]] item to prevent your [[pet]] from moving on to it.
-* Drop [[gold]] into the shop. The [[shopkeeper]] will give you credit for the gold.
+* Drop a bag of gold into the shop. The [[shopkeeper]] will give you credit for the gold.
-* Let your pet [[stealing from shops|steal]] the gold for you (a [[leash]] or [[magic whistle]] is very helpful here). (If you can, get a [[leprechaun]] to do it instead; that's sometimes easier.)
+* Let your pet [[stealing from shops|steal]] the gold for you (a [[leash]] or [[magic whistle]] is very helpful here).
 * Go to the pile and buy as much as you can from your credit.
-* Sell all the recently bought items, even items that you own. It helps to put all the merchandise in a single bag and drop it at once.
+* Sell all the recently bought items, even items that you own. It helps to put all the merchandise in a second bag and drop it at once.
 * You may need to buy and sell several times before you can exhaust your credit if you had a lot of starting credit.
-* Drop the old and new gold in the shop and repeat from letting your pet steal it.
+* Put the old and new gold in a bag, drop the bag, and repeat letting your pet steal it.
 Repeat the technique till the shopkeeper has no gold – you will know this because the shopkeeper offers you credit instead of gold when you try to sell the item – and you have enough credit to buy everything that you want from the shop.
@@ Line 17: / Line 17: @@
 The technique is very time consuming and should not be done if you don't have [[slow digestion]], a good amount of [[food]], or a good relationship with your god. The slowest part is waiting for your pet to steal the gold, so a good starting quantity helps, too.
-Credit cloning is more effective if you have a [[sack]] – or still better, a [[bag of holding]]. You can put all your gold into the sack, along with as many items as your pet can carry (preferably expensive ones). You can then have your pet carry the bag outside the shop and resell the items over and over to get all the shopkeeper's gold very quickly.
+Credit cloning is more effective if you have a second bag - especially a [[bag of holding]]. You can put all your gold into the bag, along with as many items as your pet can carry (preferably expensive ones). You can then have your pet carry the bag outside the shop and resell the items over and over to get all the shopkeeper's gold very quickly.
 The point is to steal gold instead of merchandise, since gold has the highest value-to-weight ratio of all items in the game (except artifacts and identified gems) and is universally accepted. However, in the beginning, you might need to have your pet steal items.
@@ Line 63: / Line 63: @@
 !Monsters which will pickup gold in shops
 |-
-|[[Orc (monster class)|orcs]]
+|[[Orc (monster class)|orcs]] and [[orc mummies]]
 |-
 |living [[Dwarf (monster attribute)|dwarves]] and [[dwarf mummies]]
@@ Line 70: / Line 70: @@
 |-
 |[[Ogre (monster class)|ogres]]
-|-
+|-|-
 |[[leprechaun]]s
 |}
-Certain monsters will pick up gold in a shop. These monsters will chase you into shops where you have left a pile of gold. Once they have picked up the gold, they will follow you out of the shop, where you can kill them, retrieve the gold, and repeat. Just as with pets, shopkeepers will show no alarm when these monsters swipe from them.
+Certain monsters will pick up gold in a shop. These monsters will chase you into shops where you have left a pile of gold (this time, not in a bag). Once they have picked up the gold, they will follow you out of the shop, where you can kill them, retrieve the gold, and repeat. Just as with pets, shopkeepers will show no alarm when these monsters swipe from them.
 Some strategies for this:
 * Whenever paying for ''anything'' in a shop, it is better to drop the money on the ground and pay out of your credit, rather than paying directly.
-* When you are in the shop, the shopkeepers may stand on the square just inside the door and block the monsters from entering the shop. He will step aside from this square if you are in a direct line with it and at least a full square away from it.
+* When you are in the shop, the shopkeeper may stand on the square just inside the door and block the monsters from entering the shop. They will step aside from this square if you are in a direct line with it and at least a full square away from it.
 * Some monsters, especially orcs and dwarves, will sense gold buried in the earth and loiter near it rather than following you to a shop. Dropping a trail of single gold coins will induce them to follow you.
 * Occasionally a monster will have already picked up so much weight (rocks, armor) that they will not be able to pick up any gold.
@@ Line 89: / Line 87: @@
 == SLASH'EM ==
 Credit cloning is slightly more difficult in SLASH'EM than in vanilla, but also significantly more useful. The [[shopkeeper services]] mean that it is useful to have credit in a shop even after the shopkeeper's gold has been exhausted and all useful items have been purchased. Pets are no longer guaranteed to pick up an entire pile of gold, so it is no longer possible to simply drop a pile of gold and have your pet kitten pick it up. It is necessary to place the gold into a sack or other container first. Fortunately, the shopkeeper identification service makes it much easier to identify valuable gems, and the massive increase in magic lamp price makes draining gold from shops quick if one is generated.
 ==References==
 <references/>
 [[Category:Strategy]]
 {{nethack-360}}

@@ Line 53: / Line 53: @@
 |-
 |[[warhorse]] || 1241 || 2450 || 4900
 |}

@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 Be careful that your pet doesn't starve to death while credit-cloning. If you are just starting a game and plan to credit clone, try not to let your pet pick up any items until you have reached a shop. By keeping the pet's [[apport]] from decreasing prematurely, you optimize its shoplifting ability.
-Sometimes your pet will not pick up your "stealing bag" because it is [[monster carrying capacity|too heavy]].
+Sometimes your pet will not pick up your "stealing bag" because it is too heavy.
-The spreadsheet [[File:Nh_inventory_weight.ods|Nh_inventory_weight.ods]] can do the math for you, and the below table ''has already done it'' for certain popular pets.
+The table below uses carrying capacities copied from [[Monster carrying capacity]] with a version of NetHack 3.6.6.
 {|class="prettytable"
 ! Pet type
 ! Can carry unassisted
 ! in uncursed [[bag of holding]]
 ! in blessed [[bag of holding]]
 |-
-|[[kitten]]/[[little dog]]     ||    150 ||    52 || 72 || 145
+|[[kitten]] || 51 || 70 || 140
 |-
-|[[housecat]]/[[dog]]     ||    200 ||    69 || 106 || 213
+|[[housecat]] || 68 || 104 || 208
 |-
-|[[large cat]]/[[large dog]]     ||    250 ||    1000 || 1968 || 3937
+|[[large cat]] || 1000 || 1968 || 3936
 |-
-|[[pony]]     ||    1300 ||    1000 || 1968 || 3937
+|[[little dog]] || 51 || 70 || 140
 |-
-|[[horse]]     ||    1500 ||    1034 || 2036 || 4073
+|[[dog]] || 137 || 242 || 484
 |-
-|[[warhorse]]||    1800 ||    1241 || 2450 || 4901
+|[[large dog]] || 1000 || 1968 || 3936
 |-
-|[[mind flayer]] ||1450|| 500 || 970 || 1940
+|[[pony]] || 1000 || 1968 || 3936
 |-
-|[[minotaur]] || 1500 || 1035 || 2040 || 4080
+|[[horse]] || 1034 || 2036 || 4072
 |-
-|[[balrog]] || 1450 || 1063 || 2095 || 4189
+|[[warhorse]] || 1241 || 2450 || 4900
 |}

@@ Line 62: / Line 62: @@
 |[[Orc (monster class)|orcs]]
 |-
-|[[dwarves]]
+|non-[[undead]] [[Dwarf (monster attribute)|dwarves]]
 |-
 |[[Centaur (monster class)|centaurs]]

@@ Line 60: / Line 60: @@
 !Monsters which will pickup gold in shops
 |-
-|[[orc]]s
+|[[Orc (monster class)|orcs]]
 |-
 |[[dwarf|dwarves]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:12, 16 January 2020
Line 1:		Line 1:
−	Credit cloning is the act of dropping [[gold]] in a shop to build up credit, and then removing the gold without erasing the credit. Then, the credit with the shopkeeper remains, and you have your gold back. There are several ways to accomplish this, mostly involving pets, but occasionally using hostile monsters as well. By repeatedly credit cloning and selling items to a shopkeeper, it is possible to get all of their gold, and then all of their items from the built-up credit.	+	'''Credit cloning''' is the act of dropping [[gold]] in a shop to build up credit, and then removing the gold without erasing the credit. Then, the credit with the shopkeeper remains, and you have your gold back. There are several ways to accomplish this, mostly involving pets, but occasionally using hostile monsters as well. By repeatedly credit cloning and selling items to a shopkeeper, it is possible to get all of their gold, and then all of their items from the built-up credit.

	In [[NetHack 3.6.0]], you can no longer do this with loose gold, so you need to use a [[container]] to allow the gold to be stolen as a group. Most pets will only pick up a single piece of gold, with gold-loving monsters being the exception. This means a distinct advantage for [[Rogues]] and [[Archeologists]], who both start with an uncursed [[sack]], and can therefore employ the technique of credit cloning right from the start, while other classes have to acquire some kind of container first.		In [[NetHack 3.6.0]], you can no longer do this with loose gold, so you need to use a [[container]] to allow the gold to be stolen as a group. Most pets will only pick up a single piece of gold, with gold-loving monsters being the exception. This means a distinct advantage for [[Rogues]] and [[Archeologists]], who both start with an uncursed [[sack]], and can therefore employ the technique of credit cloning right from the start, while other classes have to acquire some kind of container first.