Forum:My calculation about the best weapon to choose - Revision history

Furey: Pin {{sourcecde}} and {{function}} to 3.4.3, the current versions at the time the comment was written.

2024-07-03T01:15:38Z

Pin {{sourcecde}} and {{function}} to 3.4.3, the current versions at the time the comment was written.

NDos: /* Write your opinions here */

2022-02-05T09:01:24Z

‎Write your opinions here

NDos: /* Write your opinions here */

2022-02-05T08:59:29Z

‎Write your opinions here

Derekt75: /* Write your opinions here */ agree that alignment shouldn't matter

2021-04-12T20:33:03Z

‎Write your opinions here: agree that alignment shouldn't matter

NDos at 00:33, 25 November 2020

2020-11-25T00:33:00Z

NDos: /* Projectiles */

2020-11-01T01:42:34Z

‎Projectiles

NDos: /* Projectiles (not updated) */

2020-11-01T01:33:53Z

‎Projectiles (not updated)

NDos at 01:33, 1 November 2020

2020-11-01T01:33:20Z

NDos: /* Projectiles (not updated) */

2020-11-01T01:32:04Z

‎Projectiles (not updated)

NDos: /* The tables */

2020-11-01T00:19:34Z

‎The tables

@@ Line 307: / Line 307: @@
 ==Write your opinions here==
-This table seems to assume no strength damage bonus (see "table of attribute adjustments" in [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/343/weap-343.txt weap-343.txt], or {{function|weapon.c|dbon}}), i.e. STR between 8 to 15 inclusive.  In the late game (which these calculations otherwise seem to be for), most characters should have their stats pretty close to maximized, which improves the damage significantly for most weapons, but crucially, ''not for missiles fired from a launcher'' (i.e. arrows, bolts and sling stones; see {{sourcecode|uhitm.c|892}}).  Thus, while e.g. low-strength Rogues can maximize their damage output with poisoned crossbow bolts, a late-game Rogue with 18/** STR is much better off throwing daggers.  —[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] ([[User talk:Ilmari Karonen|talk]]) 14:12, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
+This table seems to assume no strength damage bonus (see "table of attribute adjustments" in [http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/343/weap-343.txt weap-343.txt], or {{function_343|weapon.c|dbon}}), i.e. STR between 8 to 15 inclusive.  In the late game (which these calculations otherwise seem to be for), most characters should have their stats pretty close to maximized, which improves the damage significantly for most weapons, but crucially, ''not for missiles fired from a launcher'' (i.e. arrows, bolts and sling stones; see {{sourcecode|version=NetHack 3.4.3|uhitm.c|892}}).  Thus, while e.g. low-strength Rogues can maximize their damage output with poisoned crossbow bolts, a late-game Rogue with 18/** STR is much better off throwing daggers.  —[[User:Ilmari Karonen|Ilmari Karonen]] ([[User talk:Ilmari Karonen|talk]]) 14:12, 3 February 2015 (UTC)
 <br/>
 :I fixed the table. Thank you for finding error. It turns out Rogue's best weapon is (surprisingly) darts, though. --[[User:NDos|NDos]] ([[User talk:NDos|talk]]) 05:14, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

@@ Line 318: / Line 318: @@
 In my opinion Fire Brand is terrible, and Frost Brand slightly less so, because they kill all those items you'd otherwise be getting from defeated opponents. Maybe the table should also present a "best weapon that does not destroy valuable loot" (so Mjollnir is also nonexistant, obviously). --[[User:Bluescreenofdeath|Bluescreenofdeath]] ([[User talk:Bluescreenofdeath|talk]]) 08:23, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
-:In that case, use Grayswandir for lawfuls, use [[Cleaver]] for neutrals, and use [[Stormbringer]] for chaotics. --[[User:NDos|NDos]] ([[User talk:NDos|talk]]) 23:27, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
+:In that case, use Grayswandir for lawfuls, use [[Cleaver]] or [[Vorpal Blade]] for neutrals, and use [[Stormbringer]] for chaotics. --[[User:NDos|NDos]] ([[User talk:NDos|talk]]) 23:27, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 :Mjollnir is not that bad, honestly.  It only explodes wands and rings; most monsters don't carry rings, and wands become plentiful by midgame, especially since most attack wands also destroy loot and thus don't see much use by players with this mindset.  But I agree that Fire Brand sucks: one can never have enough scrolls and potions.  [[User:Tomsod|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod|talk]]) 13:36, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 ::Yeah most wands are pretty useless, not only because they destroy items but also because their damage doesn't scale; however, wands of death are pretty rare and it's SO disheartening to have to read "The soldier's wand of death breaks apart and explodes!" because it means I'll have one less wand of death for Rodney and the riders. --[[User:Bluescreenofdeath|Bluescreenofdeath]] ([[User talk:Bluescreenofdeath|talk]]) 11:10, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

@@ Line 318: / Line 318: @@
 In my opinion Fire Brand is terrible, and Frost Brand slightly less so, because they kill all those items you'd otherwise be getting from defeated opponents. Maybe the table should also present a "best weapon that does not destroy valuable loot" (so Mjollnir is also nonexistant, obviously). --[[User:Bluescreenofdeath|Bluescreenofdeath]] ([[User talk:Bluescreenofdeath|talk]]) 08:23, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
-:In that case, use Grayswandir for lawfuls, use [[Vorpal Blade]] for neutrals, use [[Stormbringer]] for chaotics, and use [[Sceptre of Might]] for neutral cavemen. --[[User:NDos|NDos]] ([[User talk:NDos|talk]]) 23:27, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
+:In that case, use Grayswandir for lawfuls, use [[Cleaver]] for neutrals, and use [[Stormbringer]] for chaotics. --[[User:NDos|NDos]] ([[User talk:NDos|talk]]) 23:27, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 :Mjollnir is not that bad, honestly.  It only explodes wands and rings; most monsters don't carry rings, and wands become plentiful by midgame, especially since most attack wands also destroy loot and thus don't see much use by players with this mindset.  But I agree that Fire Brand sucks: one can never have enough scrolls and potions.  [[User:Tomsod|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod|talk]]) 13:36, 26 August 2019 (UTC)
 ::Yeah most wands are pretty useless, not only because they destroy items but also because their damage doesn't scale; however, wands of death are pretty rare and it's SO disheartening to have to read "The soldier's wand of death breaks apart and explodes!" because it means I'll have one less wand of death for Rodney and the riders. --[[User:Bluescreenofdeath|Bluescreenofdeath]] ([[User talk:Bluescreenofdeath|talk]]) 11:10, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:33, 12 April 2021
Line 323:		Line 323:

	Also I think you're overestimating the undesirability of the [[artifact blast]]. My neutral and chaotic characters often end up with Grayswandir, and occasional 5 points of damage don't inconvenience me at all. Possibly it's because I don't switch to a different weapon often; if I had to use a bow as well, I can see how it would be annoying. [[User:Tomsod\|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod\|talk]]) 09:42, 27 August 2019 (UTC)		Also I think you're overestimating the undesirability of the [[artifact blast]]. My neutral and chaotic characters often end up with Grayswandir, and occasional 5 points of damage don't inconvenience me at all. Possibly it's because I don't switch to a different weapon often; if I had to use a bow as well, I can see how it would be annoying. [[User:Tomsod\|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod\|talk]]) 09:42, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
		+	:I agree. I wouldn't take alignment into account. The HP damage from the artifact blast is irrelevant. The wisdom abuse becomes noticeable after a while, but there are ways to cure that. [[User:Derekt75\|Derekt75]] ([[User talk:Derekt75\|talk]]) 20:32, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

	This is unrelated, so forgive me. Unless I am badly missing something, there seems to be an issue with the Add new topic button.		This is unrelated, so forgive me. Unless I am badly missing something, there seems to be an issue with the Add new topic button.

@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 * You don't want to get alignment penalty for using [[poison]] if you are Lawful.
 * About melee weapons table, obviously, you don't want to achieve "Never hit with a wielded weapon" [[conduct]]. Monks are '''not''' an exception.
-* You have maximum [[strength]] at your race's default. (So no [[gauntlets of power]] nor [[ring of increase damage]])
+* You have maximum [[strength]] at your race's default. (So no [[gauntlets of power]] nor [[ring of gain strength]])
 ==The tables==

@@ Line 269: / Line 269: @@
 |-
 |Orc
-|colspan="2"|crossbow bolts
+|colspan="2"|poisoned crossbow bolts
 |Use a crossbow for launcher.
 |-

@@ Line 175: / Line 175: @@
 |}
-===Projectiles (not updated)===
+===Projectiles===
 {|class="prettytable"
 |-

@@ Line 185: / Line 185: @@
 !Sidenotes
 |-
-|rowspan="2"|Archeologist
+|Archeologist
-|rowspan="2"|''(any)''
+|''(any)''
-|Lawful
+|''(any)''
 |colspan="2"|[[boomerang]]s
+|
 |-
 |rowspan="2"|Barbarian
@@ Line 206: / Line 202: @@
 |Use an [[orcish bow]] for launcher.
 |-
-|rowspan="2"|Caveman
+|Caveman
-|rowspan="2"|''(any)''
+|''(any)''
-|Lawful
+|''(any)''
-|colspan="2"|boomerangs
+|colspan="2"|[[boomerang]]s
+|
 |-
-|Neutral
+|rowspan="2"|Healer
-|poisoned [[ya]]
+|Human
-|poisoned [[silver arrow]]s
+|rowspan="2"|Neutral
-|Use any bow for launcher.
+|poisoned [[dart]]s
 |-
-|Healer
+|Gnome
-|''(any)''
+|colspan="2"|poisoned darts
 |-
 |Knight
 |Human
 |Lawful
-|[[dwarvish spear]]s
+|colspan="2"|[[crossbow bolt]]s
-|[[silver spear]]s
+|Use a [[crossbow]] for launcher.
 |-
 |rowspan="2"|Monk
 |rowspan="2"|Human
 |Lawful
-|dwarvish spears
+|colspan="2"|shurikens
 |rowspan="2"|
 |-
@@ Line 240: / Line 232: @@
 |colspan="2"|poisoned shurikens
 |-
-|rowspan="3"|Priest
+|rowspan="2"|Priest
-|Elf
+|Human
 |Lawful
-|dwarvish spears
+|colspan="2"|a [[bardiche]] or boomerangs
 |rowspan="2"|
 |-
-|''(other)''
+|colspan="2"|''(other combinations)''
 |colspan="2"|poisoned shurikens
 |-
-|rowspan="3"|Ranger
+|rowspan="4"|Ranger
 |Elf
 |Chaotic
-|colspan="2"|poisoned elven arrows
+|colspan="2"|poisoned [[elven arrow]]s
 |Use an elven bow for launcher.
 |-
 |Orc
 |Chaotic
-|poisoned orcish arrows
+|colspan="2"|poisoned orcish arrows
 |Use an orcish bow for launcher.
 |-
-|''(other)''
+|rowspan="2"|Rogue
-|''(any)''
+|Human
 |colspan="2"|poisoned darts
+|
 |-
-|Rogue
+|Orc
-|''(any)''
+|colspan="2"|crossbow bolts
-|Chaotic
+|Use a crossbow for launcher.
 |-
 |Samurai
 |Human
 |Lawful
-|colspan="2"|shurikens
+|colspan="2"|[[ya]]
+|Use a [[yumi]] for launcher.
 |-
 |Tourist
@@ Line 307: / Line 301: @@
 Bugfix. --[[User:NDos|NDos]] ([[User talk:NDos|talk]]) 00:19, 1 November 2020 (UTC)
 ==Write your opinions here==

@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 |-
 |[[Ranger]]
-|colspan="2"|a tsurugi or a crysknife
+|colspan="2"|a battle-axe or a crysknife
 |-
 |[[Rogue]]
@@ Line 71: / Line 71: @@
 !colspan="2"|Primary melee weapon
 !colspan="2"|Secondary melee weapon<br/>(If you are able to #[[twoweapon]])
 |-
 !In Dungeons of Doom
@@ Line 82: / Line 81: @@
 |rowspan="2"|the [[Fire Brand]]
 |the [[Grayswandir]]
-|rowspan="2" colspan="2"|a katana
+|rowspan="2"|a crysknife
-|rowspan="2"|Get unrestricted in long sword skill by [[sacrificing]]
+|rowspan="2"|a silver saber
 |-
 |Neutral
@@ Line 93: / Line 92: @@
 |the Frost Brand
 |colspan="2"|a trident
 |-
 |rowspan="2"|[[Caveman]]
@@ Line 100: / Line 98: @@
 |the Grayswandir
 |rowspan="2" colspan="2"|
 |-
 |Neutral
@@ Line 109: / Line 106: @@
 |colspan="2"|the [[Staff of Aesculapius]]
 |colspan="2"|
 |-
 |[[Knight]]
@@ Line 116: / Line 112: @@
 |the Grayswandir
 |colspan="2"|a katana
 |-
 |rowspan="2"|[[Monk]]
@@ Line 123: / Line 118: @@
 |the Grayswandir
 |rowspan="2" colspan="2"|
 |-
 |''(other)''
@@ Line 133: / Line 127: @@
 |the Grayswandir
 |rowspan="3" colspan="2"|
 |-
 |Neutral
@@ Line 146: / Line 139: @@
 |the Frost Brand
 |colspan="2"|
 |-
 |[[Rogue]]
@@ Line 153: / Line 145: @@
 |the Frost Brand
 |colspan="2"|a crysknife
 |-
 |[[Samurai]]
@@ Line 160: / Line 151: @@
 |the Frost Brand
 |colspan="2"|a katana
 |-
 |[[Tourist]]
@@ Line 168: / Line 158: @@
 |a crysknife
 |a silver saber
 |-
-|[[Valkyrie]]
+|rowspan="2"|[[Valkyrie]]
-|''(any)''
+|Lawful
-|the Fire Brand
+|rowspan="2"|the [[Fire Brand]]
 |the Frost Brand
 |-
 |[[Wizard]]
@@ Line 182: / Line 173: @@
 |the Frost Brand
 |colspan="2"|
 |}
@@ Line 315: / Line 305: @@
 Updated as of version 3.6.2. --[[User:NDos|NDos]] ([[User talk:NDos|talk]]) 02:04, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 ==Write your opinions here==