Forum:Speed: turns versus actions - Revision history

FJH: /* IRC conversation about the behind-the-scenes */ Tried to fix line breaks.

2011-07-28T10:41:01Z

‎IRC conversation about the behind-the-scenes: Tried to fix line breaks.

Tjr: ais523 explains nomul, pasted with permission

2011-07-27T17:15:29Z

ais523 explains nomul, pasted with permission

Tjr: main text of each article

2011-07-11T10:56:42Z

main text of each article

Nht at 08:22, 11 July 2011

2011-07-11T08:22:35Z

Tjr: moved Forum:Speed: turns versus action to Forum:Speed: turns versus actions: spelling

2011-07-09T23:19:40Z

moved Forum:Speed: turns versus action to Forum:Speed: turns versus actions: spelling

Tjr: Created page with "{{Forumheader|Watercooler}} Some things are affected by speed, others not. Very little documentation on this topic is available here or elsewhere on the internet. (This is espec..."

2011-07-09T23:01:10Z

Created page with "{{Forumheader|Watercooler}} Some things are affected by speed, others not. Very little documentation on this topic is available here or elsewhere on the internet. (This is espec..."

New page

{{Forumheader|Watercooler}}

Some things are affected by speed, others not. Very little documentation on this topic is available here or elsewhere on the internet. (This is especially relevant to [[speed run]]ners.) I'd like to improve that gradually.

* Let's fix the language. How about turns == turn counter (moves, monstermoves), actions == movement points / 12?
* Since speed and its implications is a rather advanced subject, should it get its own subsection or at least paragraph, instead of integration into the main text?

Opinions, anybody? Pointers to existing spoilers? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 23:01, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 ''Starter for an article speed system''
-[19:03] TjrWiz: nomul(0) -- so you waste all your movement points if you have speed?
+[19:03] TjrWiz: nomul(0) -- so you waste all your movement points if you have speed?<br>
+[19:04] ais523: nomul(0) doesn't waste all your movement points, that's nomul(-1) you're thinking of <br>
-[19:04] ais523: nomul(0) doesn't waste all your movement points, that's nomul(-1) you're thinking of
+[19:04] rawrmage: question: what the hell is actually nomul <br>
-[19:04] rawrmage: question: what the hell is actually nomul
+[19:04] ais523: nomul(0) just turns off run and command repeat <br>
+[19:04] ais523: rawrmage: err, you probably don't want to ask that <br>
-[19:04] ais523: nomul(0) just turns off run and command repeat
+[19:04] ais523: but in short, there's a variable called multi <br>
-[19:04] ais523: rawrmage: err, you probably don't want to ask that
+[19:04] ais523: which controls about four different things <br>
-[19:04] ais523: but in short, there's a variable called multi
+[19:05] ais523: positive multi means command repeat (e.g. multi is set to 19 if you type #20s, which means "repeat the command 19 more times" except when it doesn't) <br>
-[19:04] ais523: which controls about four different things
+[19:05] ais523: while multi is positive, it reduces by one every action, except some things set it to 0 arbitrarily (things like multishot and pickup because leading numbers mean something else, that's its second meaning, things like engraving because they're coded badly) <br>
+[19:06] ais523: negative multi causes helplessness; it increases by 1 every turn, and prevents you taking actions until it hits 0 <br>
-[19:05] ais523: positive multi means command repeat (e.g. multi is set to 19 if you type #20s, which means "repeat the command 19 more times" except when it doesn't)
+[19:06] ais523: also, a function gets called when it changes from -1 to 0 <br>
+[19:06] ais523: which is also stored in a global variable, obviously <br>
-[19:05] ais523: while multi is positive, it reduces by one every action, except some things set it to 0 arbitrarily (things like multishot and pickup because leading numbers mean something else, that's its second meaning, things like engraving because they're coded badly)
+[19:06] ais523: now, multiturn actions are sometimes programmed by setting multi to a positive number, in which case they can be interrupted <br>
+[19:06] rawrmage: why is there inconsistency between You("") and pline("You") <br>
-[19:06] ais523: negative multi causes helplessness; it increases by 1 every turn, and prevents you taking actions until it hits 0
+[19:06] ais523: and sometimes by setting it to a negative number, in which case they can't <br>
-[19:06] ais523: also, a function gets called when it changes from -1 to 0
+[19:07] TjrWiz: but they differ between n actions and -n turns, right? <br>
-[19:06] ais523: which is also stored in a global variable, obviously
+[19:07] ais523: e.g. engraving Elbereth with a gem does nomul(-7) <br>
+[19:07] ais523: TjrWiz: that too <br>
+[19:07] ais523: except, for multiturn actions with a positive multi, often they just set it to something really high, then set it back to 0 when the action's finished <br>
-[19:06] ais523: now, multiturn actions are sometimes programmed by setting multi to a positive number, in which case they can be interrupted
+[19:07] ais523: like shift-move <br>
-[19:06] rawrmage: why is there inconsistency between You("") and pline("You")
+[19:07] TjrWiz: so you're actually faster with -n if you're burdened, right? <br>
-[19:06] ais523: and sometimes by setting it to a negative number, in which case they can't
+[19:07] rawrmage: whaaaaat <br>
+[19:07] ais523: TjrWiz: indeed <br>
-[19:07] TjrWiz: but they differ between n actions and -n turns, right?
+[19:07] ais523: what nomul does, is put a cap on multi <br>
-[19:07] ais523: e.g. engraving Elbereth with a gem does nomul(-7)
+[19:07] ais523: it reduces multi to the value given, except if it's already below that value <br>
-[19:07] ais523: TjrWiz: that too
+[19:08] ais523: so nomul(0) means "stop multiturn action", whereas nomul(-5) means "cause 5 turns of helplessness" <br>
+[19:08] ais523: to add to the fun, there are some cases where multi is set by hand; lifesaving sets it to -1 if it's currently 0 or lower, or 0 if it's currently 1 or higher <br>
-[19:07] ais523: except, for multiturn actions with a positive multi, often they just set it to something really high, then set it back to 0 when the action's finished
+[19:10] ais523: TjrWiz: I'll write that article someday, hopefully someday soon <br>
-[19:07] ais523: like shift-move
+[19:10] ais523: "speed system" is a good name for it <br>

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:15, 27 July 2011
Line 11:		Line 11:
	:http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/DOS/Nethack.html		:http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/DOS/Nethack.html
	:I think the distinction between 'action' and 'turn' is a useful one. 'move' should be reserved for describing motion in the cardinal directions so as not to be ambiguous (the [[speed]] article is currently guilty of this). The subject probably warrants a separate section, also it would be useful to compile a list of what actions take 0 movement points ([[turn]] lists some of these) or more than 12 movement points (prayer, long engravings, etc.). --[[User:Nht\|Nht]] 08:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)		:I think the distinction between 'action' and 'turn' is a useful one. 'move' should be reserved for describing motion in the cardinal directions so as not to be ambiguous (the [[speed]] article is currently guilty of this). The subject probably warrants a separate section, also it would be useful to compile a list of what actions take 0 movement points ([[turn]] lists some of these) or more than 12 movement points (prayer, long engravings, etc.). --[[User:Nht\|Nht]] 08:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
		+
		+
		+	==IRC conversation about the behind-the-scenes==
		+	''Starter for an article speed system''
		+
		+	[19:03] TjrWiz: nomul(0) -- so you waste all your movement points if you have speed?
		+
		+	[19:04] ais523: nomul(0) doesn't waste all your movement points, that's nomul(-1) you're thinking of
		+	[19:04] rawrmage: question: what the hell is actually nomul
		+
		+	[19:04] ais523: nomul(0) just turns off run and command repeat
		+	[19:04] ais523: rawrmage: err, you probably don't want to ask that
		+	[19:04] ais523: but in short, there's a variable called multi
		+	[19:04] ais523: which controls about four different things
		+
		+	[19:05] ais523: positive multi means command repeat (e.g. multi is set to 19 if you type #20s, which means "repeat the command 19 more times" except when it doesn't)
		+
		+	[19:05] ais523: while multi is positive, it reduces by one every action, except some things set it to 0 arbitrarily (things like multishot and pickup because leading numbers mean something else, that's its second meaning, things like engraving because they're coded badly)
		+
		+	[19:06] ais523: negative multi causes helplessness; it increases by 1 every turn, and prevents you taking actions until it hits 0
		+	[19:06] ais523: also, a function gets called when it changes from -1 to 0
		+	[19:06] ais523: which is also stored in a global variable, obviously
		+
		+
		+	[19:06] ais523: now, multiturn actions are sometimes programmed by setting multi to a positive number, in which case they can be interrupted
		+	[19:06] rawrmage: why is there inconsistency between You("") and pline("You")
		+	[19:06] ais523: and sometimes by setting it to a negative number, in which case they can't
		+
		+	[19:07] TjrWiz: but they differ between n actions and -n turns, right?
		+	[19:07] ais523: e.g. engraving Elbereth with a gem does nomul(-7)
		+	[19:07] ais523: TjrWiz: that too
		+
		+	[19:07] ais523: except, for multiturn actions with a positive multi, often they just set it to something really high, then set it back to 0 when the action's finished
		+	[19:07] ais523: like shift-move
		+	[19:07] TjrWiz: so you're actually faster with -n if you're burdened, right?
		+	[19:07] rawrmage: whaaaaatg
		+	[19:07] ais523: TjrWiz: indeed
		+	[19:07] ais523: what nomul does, is put a cap on multi
		+
		+	[19:07] ais523: it reduces multi to the value given, except if it's already below that value
		+	[19:08] ais523: so nomul(0) means "stop multiturn action", whereas nomul(-5) means "cause 5 turns of helplessness"
		+
		+	[19:08] ais523: to add to the fun, there are some cases where multi is set by hand; lifesaving sets it to -1 if it's currently 0 or lower, or 0 if it's currently 1 or higher
		+
		+	[19:10] ais523: TjrWiz: I'll write that article someday, hopefully someday soon
		+	[19:10] ais523: "speed system" is a good name for it

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:22, 11 July 2011
Line 7:		Line 7:

	Opinions, anybody? Pointers to existing spoilers? --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 23:01, 9 July 2011 (UTC)		Opinions, anybody? Pointers to existing spoilers? --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 23:01, 9 July 2011 (UTC)
		+
		+	:Not seen a detailed spoiler, though the documentation for the nethack TAS has a nice summary of the subject, see the section headed "Maximising movement speed"
		+	:http://tasvideos.org/GameResources/DOS/Nethack.html
		+	:I think the distinction between 'action' and 'turn' is a useful one. 'move' should be reserved for describing motion in the cardinal directions so as not to be ambiguous (the [[speed]] article is currently guilty of this). The subject probably warrants a separate section, also it would be useful to compile a list of what actions take 0 movement points ([[turn]] lists some of these) or more than 12 movement points (prayer, long engravings, etc.). --[[User:Nht\|Nht]] 08:22, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 * Let's fix the language. How about turns == turn counter (moves, monstermoves), actions == movement points / 12?
-* Since speed and its implications is a rather advanced subject, should it get its own subsection or at least paragraph, instead of integration into the main text?
+* Since speed and its implications is a rather advanced subject, should it get its own subsection or at least paragraph, instead of integration into the main text of each article?
 Opinions, anybody? Pointers to existing spoilers? --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 23:01, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision	Revision as of 23:19, 9 July 2011
(No difference)