Great dagger - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom: rephrase the wish thing

2025-02-20T16:00:11Z

rephrase the wish thing

Ion frigate: i actually really do mean this one as a fairly short-term tactical advantage: increasing damage output is one of the best ways to survive the early game

2025-02-20T15:55:25Z

i actually really do mean this one as a fairly short-term tactical advantage: increasing damage output is one of the best ways to survive the early game

Ion frigate: put condensed version of not being worth a wish

2025-02-20T15:54:22Z

put condensed version of not being worth a wish

Umbire the Phantom: copyedit et. al.

2025-02-20T10:48:07Z

copyedit et. al.

Ion frigate: reword, be a little more specific

2025-02-18T15:10:46Z

reword, be a little more specific

Ion frigate: move this later

2025-02-18T15:06:16Z

move this later

Ion frigate: Condense, since upgrading was already mentioned in generation

2025-02-18T15:01:53Z

Condense, since upgrading was already mentioned in generation

Ion frigate: i thought they weighed more - fixed template, added source ref, also noted damage/to-hit

2025-02-18T14:58:41Z

i thought they weighed more - fixed template, added source ref, also noted damage/to-hit

Ion frigate: strategy, moved stacking behavior to description

2025-02-18T14:51:43Z

strategy, moved stacking behavior to description

Umbire the Phantom: lede + pothole

2024-04-30T04:37:59Z

lede + pothole

@@ Line 43: / Line 43: @@
 ==Strategy==
-The great dagger is the strongest type of dagger available in SLASH'EM, SlashTHEM and Hack'EM: it can serve as both a solid melee and projectile weapon, and in SLASH'EM and SlashTHEM its base material is naturally erodeproof. Whether a plain great dagger is worth obtaining depends on the methods available: Dipping a (dark) elven dagger in a [[potion of gain level]] can be worthwhile for an early hero that started with one, such as a [[Ranger]], with the increase in damage output being more beneficial in the short to medium term than a single experience level or most other item upgrades available at that point. [[Gnome (starting race)|Gnomish]] heroes using singular daggers as their primary melee weapon will almost always want to [[tinker]] and upgrade it into a great dagger, given that the only cost is time.  Finally, a plain great dagger is almost never worth a [[wish]]: artifact daggers, [[crysknives]], or [[magic marker]]s are better ways to increase damage output via an early wish.
+The great dagger is the strongest type of dagger available in SLASH'EM, SlashTHEM and Hack'EM: it can serve as both a solid melee and projectile weapon, and in SLASH'EM and SlashTHEM its base material is naturally erodeproof. Whether a plain great dagger is worth obtaining depends on the methods available: Dipping a (dark) elven dagger in a [[potion of gain level]] can be worthwhile for an early hero that started with one, such as a [[Ranger]], with the increase in damage output being more beneficial in the short to medium term than a single experience level or most other item upgrades available at that point. [[Gnome (starting race)|Gnomish]] heroes using singular daggers as their primary melee weapon will almost always want to [[tinker]] and upgrade it into a great dagger, given that the only cost is time. The damage increase is almost never sufficient enough for a plain great dagger to be worth a [[wish]]: an early wish for a weapon in particular is better spent on artifact daggers, [[crysknives]], or [[magic marker]]s.
 Upgrading a stack of elven/dark elven daggers to use as throwing weapons is not a good idea, since most heroes amassing such stacks will also likely have them heavily [[Scroll of enchant weapon|enchanted]], and the increase in damage is marginal. Moreover, in addition to being an interface nightmare, the non-stacking great daggers pose a strategic and tactical disadvantage: they force you to either forego multiple inventory slots, or waste turns moving great daggers in and out of a [[bag]]. Finally, they will weigh twice as much as the original stack of daggers, likely adding 100+ aum to your pack.

@@ Line 43: / Line 43: @@
 ==Strategy==
-The great dagger is the strongest type of dagger available in SLASH'EM, SlashTHEM and Hack'EM: it can serve as both a solid melee and projectile weapon, and in SLASH'EM and SlashTHEM its base material is naturally erodeproof. Whether a plain great dagger is worth obtaining depends on the methods available: Dipping a (dark) elven dagger in a [[potion of gain level]] can be worthwhile for an early hero that started with one, such as a [[Ranger]], with the increase in damage output being more beneficial in the long term than a single experience level or most other item upgrades available at that point. [[Gnome (starting race)|Gnomish]] heroes using singular daggers as their primary melee weapon will almost always want to [[tinker]] and upgrade it into a great dagger, given that the only cost is time.  Finally, a plain great dagger is almost never worth a [[wish]]: artifact daggers, [[crysknives]], or [[magic marker]]s are better ways to increase damage output via an early wish.
+The great dagger is the strongest type of dagger available in SLASH'EM, SlashTHEM and Hack'EM: it can serve as both a solid melee and projectile weapon, and in SLASH'EM and SlashTHEM its base material is naturally erodeproof. Whether a plain great dagger is worth obtaining depends on the methods available: Dipping a (dark) elven dagger in a [[potion of gain level]] can be worthwhile for an early hero that started with one, such as a [[Ranger]], with the increase in damage output being more beneficial in the short to medium term than a single experience level or most other item upgrades available at that point. [[Gnome (starting race)|Gnomish]] heroes using singular daggers as their primary melee weapon will almost always want to [[tinker]] and upgrade it into a great dagger, given that the only cost is time.  Finally, a plain great dagger is almost never worth a [[wish]]: artifact daggers, [[crysknives]], or [[magic marker]]s are better ways to increase damage output via an early wish.
 Upgrading a stack of elven/dark elven daggers to use as throwing weapons is not a good idea, since most heroes amassing such stacks will also likely have them heavily [[Scroll of enchant weapon|enchanted]], and the increase in damage is marginal. Moreover, in addition to being an interface nightmare, the non-stacking great daggers pose a strategic and tactical disadvantage: they force you to either forego multiple inventory slots, or waste turns moving great daggers in and out of a [[bag]]. Finally, they will weigh twice as much as the original stack of daggers, likely adding 100+ aum to your pack.

@@ Line 43: / Line 43: @@
 ==Strategy==
-The great dagger is the strongest type of dagger available in SLASH'EM, SlashTHEM and Hack'EM: it can serve as both a solid melee and projectile weapon, and in SLASH'EM and SlashTHEM its base material is naturally erodeproof. Whether a plain great dagger is worth obtaining depends on the methods available: Dipping a (dark) elven dagger in a [[potion of gain level]] can be worthwhile for an early hero thatstarted with one, such as a [[Ranger]], with the increase in damage output being more beneficial in the long term than a single experience level or most other item upgrades available at that point. [[Gnome (starting race)|Gnomish]] heroes using singular daggers as their primary melee weapon will almost always want to [[tinker]] and upgrade it into a great dagger, given that the only cost is time.
+The great dagger is the strongest type of dagger available in SLASH'EM, SlashTHEM and Hack'EM: it can serve as both a solid melee and projectile weapon, and in SLASH'EM and SlashTHEM its base material is naturally erodeproof. Whether a plain great dagger is worth obtaining depends on the methods available: Dipping a (dark) elven dagger in a [[potion of gain level]] can be worthwhile for an early hero that started with one, such as a [[Ranger]], with the increase in damage output being more beneficial in the long term than a single experience level or most other item upgrades available at that point. [[Gnome (starting race)|Gnomish]] heroes using singular daggers as their primary melee weapon will almost always want to [[tinker]] and upgrade it into a great dagger, given that the only cost is time.  Finally, a plain great dagger is almost never worth a [[wish]]: artifact daggers, [[crysknives]], or [[magic marker]]s are better ways to increase damage output via an early wish.
 Upgrading a stack of elven/dark elven daggers to use as throwing weapons is not a good idea, since most heroes amassing such stacks will also likely have them heavily [[Scroll of enchant weapon|enchanted]], and the increase in damage is marginal. Moreover, in addition to being an interface nightmare, the non-stacking great daggers pose a strategic and tactical disadvantage: they force you to either forego multiple inventory slots, or waste turns moving great daggers in and out of a [[bag]]. Finally, they will weigh twice as much as the original stack of daggers, likely adding 100+ aum to your pack.

@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 A '''great dagger''' is a type of [[weapon]] that appears in [[SLASH'EM]], [[SlashTHEM]] and [[Hack'EM]]. It is a one-handed weapon that uses the [[dagger]] [[skill]], and can be used in melee and thrown. It is made of [[metal]].
-[[The Great Dagger of Glaurgnaa]] is an [[artifact weapon|artifact]] great dagger.
+The great dagger is the [[base item]] for the [[artifact]] [[The Great Dagger of Glaurgnaa]].
 ==Generation==
@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 ===SlashTHEM===
-In SlashTHEM, great daggers can be randomly generated like other weapons, and weapon [[shop]]s and general stores can stock great daggers.
+In SlashTHEM, great daggers can be randomly generated like other weapons, and general [[store]]s, weapon [[shop]]s and general stores can stock great daggers.
 ===Hack'EM===
@@ Line 34: / Line 36: @@
 ==Description==
-Great daggers do ''1d6'' damage against small monsters and ''1d7'' against large ones, and like most other daggers have a +2 [[to-hit]] bonus.  They also weigh twice as much as ordinary daggers, at 20 [[aum]].{{refsrc|objects.c|115|version=SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F2}}
+Great daggers do ''1d6'' damage against small monsters and ''1d7'' against large ones, and like most other daggers have a +2 [[to-hit]] bonus. They also weigh twice as much as ordinary daggers at 20 [[aum]].{{refsrc|objects.c|115|version=SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F2}}
-The great dagger cannot be stacked normally like other daggers, which is done intentionally<ref>[http://web.archive.org/web/20140805201036/http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.games.roguelike.nethack.slashem.devel/72 SLASH'EM mailing list @ lists.sourceforge.net - Release plans (0.0.7E7F3 and 0.0.8E0F1)]</ref>. It is possible to generate a stack of great daggers by upgrading a stack of elven/dark elven daggers, but any dagger thrown from this stack will not be able to re-merge into the original stack.
+Great daggers intentionally cannot be stacked normally like other daggers.<ref>[http://web.archive.org/web/20140805201036/http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.games.roguelike.nethack.slashem.devel/72 SLASH'EM mailing list @ lists.sourceforge.net - Release plans (0.0.7E7F3 and 0.0.8E0F1)]</ref> While it is possible to generate a stack of great daggers by upgrading, any dagger thrown from this stack can not be re-merged into the original stack.
 In Hack'EM, upgrading a great dagger will produce an [[orcish dagger]].
 ==Strategy==
-The great dagger is the strongest type of dagger available in SLASH'EM and its variants - it can serve as both a solid melee and projectile weapon, and its base material is naturally erodeproof.  Whether it is worth obtaining depends on the methods available:
+The great dagger is the strongest type of dagger available in SLASH'EM, SlashTHEM and Hack'EM: it can serve as both a solid melee and projectile weapon, and in SLASH'EM and SlashTHEM its base material is naturally erodeproof. Whether a plain great dagger is worth obtaining depends on the methods available: Dipping a (dark) elven dagger in a [[potion of gain level]] can be worthwhile for an early hero thatstarted with one, such as a [[Ranger]], with the increase in damage output being more beneficial in the long term than a single experience level or most other item upgrades available at that point. [[Gnome (starting race)|Gnomish]] heroes using singular daggers as their primary melee weapon will almost always want to [[tinker]] and upgrade it into a great dagger, given that the only cost is time.
-Upgrading a stack of elven/dark elven daggers to use as throwing weapons is not a good idea.  By the time one has such a stack, it is likely already heavily enchanted, meaning that the increase in damage will be marginal.  Moreover, in addition to being an interface nightmare, the non-stacking great daggers pose a strategic and tactical disadvantage: they force you to either forgo multiple inventory slots, or waste turns moving great daggers in and out of a bag.  Finally, they will weigh twice as much as the original stack of daggers, likely adding 100+ aum to your pack.
+Upgrading a stack of elven/dark elven daggers to use as throwing weapons is not a good idea, since most heroes amassing such stacks will also likely have them heavily [[Scroll of enchant weapon|enchanted]], and the increase in damage is marginal. Moreover, in addition to being an interface nightmare, the non-stacking great daggers pose a strategic and tactical disadvantage: they force you to either forego multiple inventory slots, or waste turns moving great daggers in and out of a [[bag]]. Finally, they will weigh twice as much as the original stack of daggers, likely adding 100+ aum to your pack.
 ==References==

@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 * A great dagger is virtually never worth wishing for.  Wish for an artifact dagger (e.g. [[Serpent's Tongue]], [[Stake of Van Helsing]]), or if that is not possible or desirable, for a [[magic marker]] to write some [[scrolls of enchant weapon]] instead.  Alternatively, wish for a [[crysknife]]:  most roles that can gain skill in daggers can also gain skill in knives, and in SLASH'EM crysknives have their damage buffed to 1d20/1d30, far superior to a great dagger.
-* Dipping a (dark) elven dagger in a [[potion of gain level]] can be worthwhile, particularly early on: for a hero already skilled with daggers (such as a [[Ranger]]), the increase in damage output is usually more beneficial a single experience level, or any other item upgrade available at that point.
+* Dipping a (dark) elven dagger in a [[potion of gain level]] can be worthwhile for an early hero who started with a dagger, such as a [[Ranger]]: the increase in damage output is usually more beneficial a single experience level, or any other item upgrade available at that point.
 * Dagger-using [[Gnome (starting race)|gnome]]s will almost always want to upgrade a single dagger to a great dagger using the [[tinker]] technique, given that the only cost is time.

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
   |tohit=<nowiki>+2</nowiki>
   |cost=500
-  |weight=10
+  |weight=20
   |material=metal
   |color=black
@@ Line 34: / Line 34: @@
 ==Description==
 The great dagger cannot be stacked normally like other daggers, which is done intentionally<ref>[http://web.archive.org/web/20140805201036/http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.games.roguelike.nethack.slashem.devel/72 SLASH'EM mailing list @ lists.sourceforge.net - Release plans (0.0.7E7F3 and 0.0.8E0F1)]</ref> - a stack of great daggers can be generated by other means (e.g. upgrading).
@@ Line 48: / Line 50: @@
 * Dagger-using [[Gnome (starting race)|gnome]]s will almost always want to upgrade a single dagger to a great dagger using the [[tinker]] technique, given that the only cost is time.
-Upgrading a stack of elven/dark elven daggers to use as throwing weapons is not a good idea.  By the time one has such a stack, it is likely already heavily enchanted, meaning that the increase in damage will be marginal.  Moreover, in addition to being an interface nightmare, the non-stacking great daggers pose a strategic and tactical disadvantage: they force you to either forgo multiple inventory slots, or waste turns moving great daggers in and out of a bag.
+Upgrading a stack of elven/dark elven daggers to use as throwing weapons is not a good idea.  By the time one has such a stack, it is likely already heavily enchanted, meaning that the increase in damage will be marginal, and the resulting stack will weigh twice as much.  Moreover, in addition to being an interface nightmare, the non-stacking great daggers pose a strategic and tactical disadvantage: they force you to either forgo multiple inventory slots, or waste turns moving great daggers in and out of a bag.
 ==References==

@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 }}
-A '''great dagger''' is a type of [[weapon]] that appears in [[SLASH'EM]], [[SlashTHEM]] and [[Hack'EM]]. It uses the [[dagger]] [[skill]], and is made of [[metal]].
+A '''great dagger''' is a type of [[weapon]] that appears in [[SLASH'EM]], [[SlashTHEM]] and [[Hack'EM]]. It is a one-handed weapon that uses the [[dagger]] [[skill]], and can be used in melee and thrown. It is made of [[metal]].
 [[The Great Dagger of Glaurgnaa]] is an [[artifact weapon|artifact]] great dagger.
@@ Line 23: / Line 23: @@
 In SLASH'EM, great daggers are not randomly generated, though they can be [[wish]]ed for and appear in [[bones]].
-[[Upgrading]] an [[elven dagger]] or [[dark elven dagger]] will produce a great dagger.
+[[Upgrading]] an [[elven dagger]] or [[Dark elven dagger (SLASH'EM)|dark elven dagger]] will produce a great dagger.
 ===SlashTHEM===