Hit and run - Revision history

YakumoRising: can still kite with polearms and other ranged attacks

2026-05-06T13:44:40Z

can still kite with polearms and other ranged attacks

Actual-nh: Link speed; clarify

2021-05-17T04:41:08Z

Link speed; clarify

Phol ende wodan: Clean up "NOTE:" section with a top level paragraph, add todo for cleaning up speed system documentation, remove overly narrow pudding splitting example

2019-01-04T19:12:59Z

Clean up "NOTE:" section with a top level paragraph, add todo for cleaning up speed system documentation, remove overly narrow pudding splitting example

Tomsod: /* How it works */ 3.6.0 nerf -- i just died to a mimic because of this

2018-07-05T21:16:02Z

‎How it works: 3.6.0 nerf -- i just died to a mimic because of this

Phol ende wodan: Add todo about 3.6.0 nerf to this

2017-01-23T16:59:41Z

Add todo about 3.6.0 nerf to this

ChasonBot at 16:34, 19 December 2015

2015-12-19T16:34:04Z

Prometheus77: updated

2013-07-15T20:50:23Z

updated

Prometheus77: black pudding example

2013-07-12T23:13:58Z

black pudding example

Prometheus77: fix table title

2013-07-12T23:05:11Z

fix table title

Prometheus77: Substantially updated with tables and calc instructions

2013-07-12T23:02:33Z

Substantially updated with tables and calc instructions

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:44, 6 May 2026
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	In 3.6.1, instead of accumulating movement points, monsters get an action for each 12 points of speed they have, plus a possible extra action with probability proportional to any extra movement they have beyond that. {{reffunc\|mon.c\|mcalcmove}} E.g., a [[mimic]] (speed 3) has a 3/12 = 25% chance of getting an action each turn, and a [[killer bee]] (speed 18) gets one guaranteed action plus a 6/12 = 50% chance of another one each turn, irrespective of preceding movement. Thus, you should always assume that the monster's speed is rounded up to a multiple of 12, making the strategy below only useful if you are very fast or riding.		In 3.6.1, instead of accumulating movement points, monsters get an action for each 12 points of speed they have, plus a possible extra action with probability proportional to any extra movement they have beyond that. {{reffunc\|mon.c\|mcalcmove}} E.g., a [[mimic]] (speed 3) has a 3/12 = 25% chance of getting an action each turn, and a [[killer bee]] (speed 18) gets one guaranteed action plus a 6/12 = 50% chance of another one each turn, irrespective of preceding movement. Thus, you should always assume that the monster's speed is rounded up to a multiple of 12, making the strategy below only useful if you are very fast or riding.
		+
		+	It is, of course, still possible to kite melee only monsters with ranged attacks, or even pounding with a [[Polearm]] and such.

	{{todo\|This isn't really the proper page to describe the monster speed system; is there any better one? (As far as I know, the 3.6 changes to the player speed system aren't documented anywhere on the wiki either...) Also, this page could do with some explanation of how 3.6 kiting is useful "if you are very fast or riding"}}		{{todo\|This isn't really the proper page to describe the monster speed system; is there any better one? (As far as I know, the 3.6 changes to the player speed system aren't documented anywhere on the wiki either...) Also, this page could do with some explanation of how 3.6 kiting is useful "if you are very fast or riding"}}

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-'''Hit and run''', also known as '''kiting''', is a tactic used for fighting [[monster]]s which may have powerful melee attacks but are slower than the player, such as [[mimic]]s, [[black pudding]]s, and [[rothe]]s. It is known as '''hack-and-back''' in Angband circles.
+'''Hit and run''', also known as '''kiting''', is a tactic used for fighting [[monster]]s which may have powerful melee attacks but are [[speed|slower than]] the player, such as [[mimic]]s, [[black pudding]]s, and [[rothe]]s. It is known as '''hack-and-back''' in Angband circles.
 Since this technique allowed the player to kill most slower monsters trivially, given enough space, [[NetHack 3.6.0]] and [[NetHack 3.6.1]] added randomization to the monster and player speed systems, making the precise counting methods described below obsolete. Generally, it is still possible to kite monsters that are substantially slower than you, forcing them to spend most of their actions pursuing rather than attacking, but there is no longer a way to guarantee that they will spend ''all'' of their actions pursing.
-In 3.6.1, instead of accumulating movement points, monsters get an action for each 12 points of speed they have, plus a possible extra action with probability proportional to any extra movement they have beyond that. {{reffunc|mon.c|mcalcmove}} E.g., a [[mimic]] (speed 3) has a 3/12 = 25% chance of getting an action each turn, and a [[killer bee]] (speed 18) gets one guaranteed action plus a 6/12 = 50% chance of another one each turn, irrespective of preceding movement.  Thus, you should always assume that the monster's speed is rounded up to 12, making the strategy below only useful if you are very fast or riding.
+In 3.6.1, instead of accumulating movement points, monsters get an action for each 12 points of speed they have, plus a possible extra action with probability proportional to any extra movement they have beyond that. {{reffunc|mon.c|mcalcmove}} E.g., a [[mimic]] (speed 3) has a 3/12 = 25% chance of getting an action each turn, and a [[killer bee]] (speed 18) gets one guaranteed action plus a 6/12 = 50% chance of another one each turn, irrespective of preceding movement.  Thus, you should always assume that the monster's speed is rounded up to a multiple of 12, making the strategy below only useful if you are very fast or riding.
 {{todo|This isn't really the proper page to describe the monster speed system; is there any better one? (As far as I know, the 3.6 changes to the player speed system aren't documented anywhere on the wiki either...) Also, this page could do with some explanation of how 3.6 kiting is useful "if you are very fast or riding"}}

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-'''Hit and run''', also known as '''kiting''', is a trick used for fighting [[monster]]s which may have powerful melee attacks but are slower than the player, such as [[mimic]]s, [[black pudding]]s, and [[rothe]]s. This tactic is known as '''hack-and-back''' in Angband circles.
+'''Hit and run''', also known as '''kiting''', is a tactic used for fighting [[monster]]s which may have powerful melee attacks but are slower than the player, such as [[mimic]]s, [[black pudding]]s, and [[rothe]]s. It is known as '''hack-and-back''' in Angband circles.
-==How it works==
+Since this technique allowed the player to kill most slower monsters trivially, given enough space, [[NetHack 3.6.0]] and [[NetHack 3.6.1]] added randomization to the monster and player speed systems, making the precise counting methods described below obsolete. Generally, it is still possible to kite monsters that are substantially slower than you, forcing them to spend most of their actions pursuing rather than attacking, but there is no longer a way to guarantee that they will spend ''all'' of their actions pursing.
-'''NOTE:''' In [[3.6.0]] the monster speed mechanics have changed.{{refsrc|mon.c|615|nethack=3.6.1}}  Instead of accumulating movement points, monsters randomly get an extra turn with probability proportional to their extra movement.  E.g., a [[mimic]] (speed 3) has a 25% chance of moving each turn, and a [[killer bee]] (speed 18) has a 50% chance of moving a second time each turn, irrespective of preceding movement.  Thus, you should always assume that the monster's speed is rounded up to 12, making the strategy below only useful if you are very fast or riding.
+In 3.6.1, instead of accumulating movement points, monsters get an action for each 12 points of speed they have, plus a possible extra action with probability proportional to any extra movement they have beyond that. {{reffunc|mon.c|mcalcmove}} E.g., a [[mimic]] (speed 3) has a 3/12 = 25% chance of getting an action each turn, and a [[killer bee]] (speed 18) gets one guaranteed action plus a 6/12 = 50% chance of another one each turn, irrespective of preceding movement.  Thus, you should always assume that the monster's speed is rounded up to 12, making the strategy below only useful if you are very fast or riding.
 A monster can use each turn it gets for either movement or attacking you, but not both. For example, if a monster moves at least twice as slowly as the player, it cannot melee you the turn immediately after it moves, and you can safely attack it on that turn.
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 ==Dangers==
-Hit and run is most likely to be successful if the monster in question is the only monster nearby. It's best to close doors or block off other exits (e.g. dropping an item on an [[Elbereth]] square or using a [[scroll of earth]]) to avoid having other foes intrude on your hit and run session. Hit and run can also be dangerous when facing a creature that has a projectile attack.
+Hit and run is most likely to be successful if the monster in question is the only monster nearby. It's best to close doors or block off other exits to avoid having other foes intrude on your hit and run session. Hit and run is also much less useful when facing a creature that can attack you at range, since it will often choose to make a ranged attack instead of chasing.
-There is now nowhere to go to escape the black pudding on your next move. If you are low on HP, you might want to consider using an [[escape item]], or as a last resort, engraving [[Elbereth]] in the dust to get away.
+One common tactic is to hit and run in a circle, looping around a set of hallways, a boulder, or a cave formation that allows maneuverability all the way around. When doing this, watch out for monsters that could block the path ahead of you. Note that using hit and run on [[pudding]]s or other multiplying monsters is not totally safe since if the monster divides, that extra monster could appear adjacent to you and block the way or attack the next turn.
-==References==
+== References ==
 [[Category:Strategy]]
-{{nethack-343}}
+{{nethack-361}}

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 ==How it works==
-{{todo|3.6.0 nerfs kiting by giving monsters additional random movement turns. Don't know the exact mechanics of this.}}
 A monster can use each turn it gets for either movement or attacking you, but not both. For example, if a monster moves at least twice as slowly as the player, it cannot melee you the turn immediately after it moves, and you can safely attack it on that turn.

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-'''Hit and run''' is a trick used for fighting [[monster]]s which may have powerful melee attacks, but are  slower than the player, such as [[mimic]]s, [[black pudding]]s, and [[rothe]]s. This tactic is known as '''hack-and-back''' in Angband circles.
+'''Hit and run''', also known as '''kiting''', is a trick used for fighting [[monster]]s which may have powerful melee attacks but are slower than the player, such as [[mimic]]s, [[black pudding]]s, and [[rothe]]s. This tactic is known as '''hack-and-back''' in Angband circles.
 ==How it works==
 A monster can use each turn it gets for either movement or attacking you, but not both. For example, if a monster moves at least twice as slowly as the player, it cannot melee you the turn immediately after it moves, and you can safely attack it on that turn.

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:34, 19 December 2015
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	<references/>		<references/>
	[[Category:Strategy]]		[[Category:Strategy]]
		+	{{nethack-343}}

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 '''Hit and run''' is a trick used for fighting [[monster]]s which may have powerful melee attacks, but are  slower than the player, such as [[mimic]]s, [[black pudding]]s, and [[rothe]]s. This tactic is known as '''hack-and-back''' in Angband circles.
 A monster can use each turn it gets for either movement or attacking you, but not both. For example, if a monster moves at least twice as slowly as the player, it cannot melee you the turn immediately after it moves, and you can safely attack it on that turn.
@@ Line 7: / Line 8: @@
 Intrinsic and extrinsic [[speed]] are erratic, and you should act as if you have the minimum possible speed. When fast (i.e. [[wand of speed monster]], "You feel quick!", etc.) you get a 2 in 3 chance of +6 speed, and should act as if you are still moving at normal speed, rather than acting like you have a speed of 16, to avoid getting hit the 1/3 of the time your speed bonus doesn't apply. When you are '''very''' fast ([[speed boots]]), however, you are guaranteed at least 18 speed (and a 1 in 3 chance of another +6), and can successfully defeat anything slower than 18 while never getting hit. In both of these cases, when you get your extra move, you should rest and wait for the monster to move adjacent to you and then start the rhythm over again. Note that extra speed from [[polymorph]]ing yourself or [[riding]] is always reliable, so an unburdened player riding a [[warhorse]] should count his speed as 24.
 Here is a handy table to help you calculate your minimum speed:
 {| class="prettytable sortable striped" style="border:none; margin:0; padding:0; width: 22em;"
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 *A player riding a [[horse]] will move at 20, and a [[leocrotta]] will move at 18. Since 18/20 = 9/10, this player can safely hit the leocrotta after every nine moves. In practice, it is difficult to hit-and-run at this speed unless you have a loop to move around and there are no other monsters nearby. If the player were riding a [[warhorse]] (speed 24), 18/24 = 3/4, so the player could hit after every three moves.
-If you are hit-and-running in a circle along hallways or around a boulder, watch out for monsters that could block the path ahead of you. Using hit and run on puddings when using an iron weapon is not totally safe since if the monster divides, that extra monster could appear adjacent to you and block the way or attack the next turn. For example:
+==Dangers==
 You start like this:
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 </replacecharsblock></div>
-There is now nowhere to go to escape the black pudding on your next move.
+There is now nowhere to go to escape the black pudding on your next move. If you are low on HP, you might want to consider using an [[escape item]], or as a last resort, engraving [[Elbereth]] in the dust to get away.
 ==References==

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 {| class="prettytable"
-! Fraction ! Percentage || Rhythm
+! Fraction !! Percentage !! Rhythm
 |-
 | 1/2 || 50% || move once, hit once
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 {| class="prettytable"
-! Fraction ! Percentage || Rhythm
+! Fraction !! Percentage !! Rhythm
 |-
 | 9/10 || 90% || move nine times, hit once

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 All slow monsters have to pause a turn at a predictable rhythm, e. g. always after three movements. You can hit such a monster as often as you wish without a single counterattack: You start stepping back immediately after you attack it, and then you attack it only when it moves adjacent to you right before its scheduled pause. You can use hit and run tactics for all of your attack types: melee, [[pounding]], missiles, and spells.
-When you are only fast, the extra speed is random (2 in 3 chance of +6).{{refsrc|allmain.c|108}}. Thus, you should not count on it for hit-and-run tactics unless you can take a hit or two or are attacking from a distance, even if that means to waste turns. When you are '''very''' fast, however, you are guaranteed at least 18 speed (and a 1 in 3 chance of another +6), and can successfully defeat anything slower while never getting hit. Extra speed from [[polymorph]]ing yourself or [[riding]] is always reliable.
+Intrinsic and extrinsic [[speed]] are erratic, and you should act as if you have the minimum possible speed. When fast (i.e. [[wand of speed monster]], "You feel quick!", etc.) you get a 2 in 3 chance of +6 speed, and should act as if you are still moving at normal speed, rather than acting like you have a speed of 16, to avoid getting hit the 1/3 of the time your speed bonus doesn't apply. When you are '''very''' fast ([[speed boots]]), however, you are guaranteed at least 18 speed (and a 1 in 3 chance of another +6), and can successfully defeat anything slower than 18 while never getting hit. In both of these cases, when you get your extra move, you should rest and wait for the monster to move adjacent to you and then start the rhythm over again. Note that extra speed from [[polymorph]]ing yourself or [[riding]] is always reliable, so an unburdened player riding a [[warhorse]] should count his speed as 24.
 If you are hit-and-running in a circle along hallways or around a boulder, watch out for monsters that could block the path ahead of you. Using hit and run on puddings when using an iron weapon is not totally safe since if the monster divides, that extra monster could appear adjacent to you and block the way or attack the next turn.