Murder - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom: /* Strategy */ detail this while we're here

2025-04-03T00:33:44Z

‎Strategy: detail this while we're here

Umbire the Phantom: Undo revision 186471 by Eraserhead97 (talk) the ring of conflict is so you can have something else attack it to begin with

2025-04-03T00:32:35Z

Undo revision 186471 by Eraserhead97 (talk) the ring of conflict is so you can have something else attack it to begin with

Eraserhead97: Ring of Conflict doesn't work in 3.7.0 - still counts as murder, even as a neutral valk.

2025-04-03T00:18:00Z

Ring of Conflict doesn't work in 3.7.0 - still counts as murder, even as a neutral valk.

Umbire the Phantom: /* Murder and standard humans */ rephrase, specify commit

2024-12-20T05:59:04Z

‎Murder and standard humans: rephrase, specify commit

Phol ende wodan: /* Description */ 3.7: there is no longer a murder penalty for ordinary humans

2024-12-19T23:29:40Z

‎Description: 3.7: there is no longer a murder penalty for ordinary humans

Ais523: /* Strategy */ don't too strongly encourage carrying what is a rather niche/situational item

2023-12-17T16:53:35Z

‎Strategy: don't too strongly encourage carrying what is a rather niche/situational item

Umbire the Phantom: renovate here as well, carry over Ion's findings

2023-12-17T03:00:02Z

renovate here as well, carry over Ion's findings

Umbire the Phantom: there's an article for that

2022-10-06T13:10:35Z

there's an article for that

Frozty: grammar

2022-10-06T12:56:24Z

grammar

Frozty: Update for EvilHack non-Human murder

2022-10-06T12:52:14Z

Update for EvilHack non-Human murder

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 ==Strategy==
-Characters looking to avoid murder will generally have a strong enough [[pet]] to do the dirty work, and can also opt to wear a [[ring of conflict]]. [[Polymorph]]ing them into another monster will circumvent murder penalties, but they may become something even harder to kill and you risk angering other peaceful monsters that witness this - additionally, the victim can die of [[system shock]], which counts as murder.
+Heroes looking to avoid committing murder will generally have a strong enough [[pet]] do the dirty work, and can also opt to wear a [[ring of conflict]] if they have a pet that is lethal enough but otherwise low level (e.g. a [[cockatrice]]) or there are other strong-enough peaceful monsters around. [[Polymorph]]ing an always-peaceful human into another non-human monster will circumvent murder penalties, but they may become something even harder to kill, and you risk angering other peaceful monsters that witness this&mdash;additionally, the victim can die of [[system shock]], which counts as murder.
 It can be worth carrying a [[tin]] or two of [[floating eye]] meat in case you lose your telepathy to murder, whether accidental or otherwise, or by other means (e.g. a [[gremlin]] attack).

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 ==Strategy==
-Characters looking to avoid murder will generally have a strong enough [[pet]] to do the dirty work. [[Polymorph]]ing them into another monster will circumvent murder penalties, but they may become something even harder to kill and you risk angering other peaceful monsters that witness this - additionally, the victim can die of [[system shock]], which counts as murder.
+Characters looking to avoid murder will generally have a strong enough [[pet]] to do the dirty work, and can also opt to wear a [[ring of conflict]]. [[Polymorph]]ing them into another monster will circumvent murder penalties, but they may become something even harder to kill and you risk angering other peaceful monsters that witness this - additionally, the victim can die of [[system shock]], which counts as murder.
 It can be worth carrying a [[tin]] or two of [[floating eye]] meat in case you lose your telepathy to murder, whether accidental or otherwise, or by other means (e.g. a [[gremlin]] attack).

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 ==Strategy==
-Characters looking to avoid murder will generally have a strong enough [[pet]] to do the dirty work, and can also opt to wear a [[ring of conflict]]. [[Polymorph]]ing them into another monster will circumvent murder penalties, but they may become something even harder to kill and you risk angering other peaceful monsters that witness this - additionally, the victim can die of [[system shock]], which counts as murder.
+Characters looking to avoid murder will generally have a strong enough [[pet]] to do the dirty work. [[Polymorph]]ing them into another monster will circumvent murder penalties, but they may become something even harder to kill and you risk angering other peaceful monsters that witness this - additionally, the victim can die of [[system shock]], which counts as murder.
 It can be worth carrying a [[tin]] or two of [[floating eye]] meat in case you lose your telepathy to murder, whether accidental or otherwise, or by other means (e.g. a [[gremlin]] attack).

@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 Because of [[alignment record#Alignment gains from killing monsters|the way alignment gain works]], killing a ''hostile'' human will be considered murder for lawfuls, since killing a cross-aligned "sometimes peaceful" monster adjusts the player's alignment record by <code>malign</code> - this represents the monster's alignment, which in the case of the neutral human is ''zero'', and neither positive nor negative. For a neutral character, killing a hostile human will not be considered murder, as the alignment gain from killing a co-aligned "sometimes peaceful" monster is <code>max(3, malign)</code>, or 3 - killing a ''peaceful'' human will still be considered murder as normal.  The human is the only monster for which these conditions can align.
-{{upcoming|NetHack 3.7.0|Killing a [[human (monster)]] no longer counts as murder.}}
+{{upcoming|NetHack 3.7.0|Per {{commit|cd91d0630b4aac8b502713715b29a696ece5d765}}, killing monster humans no longer incurs murder penalties.}}
 ==Strategy==

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:29, 19 December 2024
Line 21:		Line 21:

	Because of [[alignment record#Alignment gains from killing monsters\|the way alignment gain works]], killing a ''hostile'' human will be considered murder for lawfuls, since killing a cross-aligned "sometimes peaceful" monster adjusts the player's alignment record by <code>malign</code> - this represents the monster's alignment, which in the case of the neutral human is ''zero'', and neither positive nor negative. For a neutral character, killing a hostile human will not be considered murder, as the alignment gain from killing a co-aligned "sometimes peaceful" monster is <code>max(3, malign)</code>, or 3 - killing a ''peaceful'' human will still be considered murder as normal. The human is the only monster for which these conditions can align.		Because of [[alignment record#Alignment gains from killing monsters\|the way alignment gain works]], killing a ''hostile'' human will be considered murder for lawfuls, since killing a cross-aligned "sometimes peaceful" monster adjusts the player's alignment record by <code>malign</code> - this represents the monster's alignment, which in the case of the neutral human is ''zero'', and neither positive nor negative. For a neutral character, killing a hostile human will not be considered murder, as the alignment gain from killing a co-aligned "sometimes peaceful" monster is <code>max(3, malign)</code>, or 3 - killing a ''peaceful'' human will still be considered murder as normal. The human is the only monster for which these conditions can align.
		+
		+	{{upcoming\|NetHack 3.7.0\|Killing a [[human (monster)]] no longer counts as murder.}}

	==Strategy==		==Strategy==

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-In NetHack, '''murder''' is the act of killing a formerly [[peaceful]] [[human (monster attribute)|human]] such as a [[watchman]], [[shopkeeper]], or [[aligned priest]].{{refsrc|src/mon.c|2463|version=NetHack 3.6.6|comment=Specifically, killing humans of types that are [[peaceful#List of monsters that may be generated peaceful|not always generated hostile]], are not [[player monster]]s, and that, when killed, [[alignment record#Alignment gains from killing monsters|adjust your alignment record]] by a non-positive number, will subject you to a murder penalty if you are not chaotic.}}  This only applies to humans who were generated as peaceful, not to those who were generated as hostile then pacified through magic. In particular, [[Keystone Kop]]s do not count because they are generated hostile. If you anger the [[high priest]] of [[Moloch]] by entering their [[temple]], you may kill without being considered a murderer.{{refsrc|src/priest.c|429|version=NetHack 3.6.6|comment=The [[alignment record]] gain you get from killing the high priest is set to a positive value when angered by you entering their temple.}}{{refsrc|src/makemon.c|2076|version=NetHack 3.6.6}} If you are called an infidel, it's fair game. Killing the high priest from outside the temple, without first entering it, still counts as murder.  Killing a [[guard]] is murder, even if the guard attacks first.
+In ''[[NetHack]]'', '''murder''' is the act of killing a [[Human (monster attribute)|human]] monster that generated [[peaceful]] such as a [[watchman]], [[shopkeeper]], or [[aligned priest]].
-Unless you are [[chaotic]], murder will cause you to lose intrinsic [[telepathy]] and two points of [[Luck]].  The message when this happens is "You murderer!"
+==Description==
-Note that whatever your race, only the killing of a peaceful ''human'' will ever be classed as murder.
+* The player must not be [[chaotic]]
-Everyone including chaotics still gets a huge [[alignment record|alignment penalty]] for killing always-peaceful monsters (which mostly coincide with those that can be murdered): Minetown [[watch]], [[aligned priest|priests]], [[shopkeeper]]s etc.
+This only applies to humans who were generated as peaceful: [[Keystone Kop]]s do not count because they are generated hostile, while [[guard]]s count because they are generated peaceful, though they will attack first if you try to evade them or claim to be [[Croesus]] after killing him.
-== Strategy ==
+The [[high priest]] of [[Moloch]] is a notable exception to the above: you may kill them without being considered a murderer, so long as you have angered them by directly entering the [[temple]].{{refsrc|src/priest.c|429|version=NetHack 3.6.7|comment=The [[alignment record]] gain you get from killing the high priest is set to a positive value when angered by you entering their temple.}}{{refsrc|src/makemon.c|2076|version=NetHack 3.6.7}}
-It's a good idea to carry a [[tin]] or two of [[floating eye]] meat in case you lose your telepathy (whether through committing murder or a [[gremlin]] attack).
+===Penalties===
 ==Variants==
 In [[EvilHack]], always-peaceful monsters are now [[racial monster]]s as well, meaning that murder is no longer limited to just killing humans of these monster types.
 ==References==
 <references/>
+{{nethack-367}}
-{{stub}}
+[[Category:Your character]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:56, 6 October 2022
Line 13:		Line 13:

	==Variants==		==Variants==
−	In [[EvilHack]] monsters generated as always peaceful are no longer limited to just one race (human) – they now have a wide range of races they can spawn as. The different races include [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]], [[orc]], [[giant]], [[centaur]], [[nymph]], and [[illithid]]. Killing these formerly peaceful monsters still counts as Murder in EvilHack, even ~~though~~ they are not human.	+	In [[EvilHack]] monsters generated as always peaceful are no longer limited to just one race (human) – they now have a wide range of races they can spawn as. The different races include [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]], [[orc]], [[giant]], [[centaur]], [[nymph]], and [[illithid]]. Killing these formerly peaceful monsters still counts as Murder in EvilHack, even if they are not human.

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:52, 6 October 2022
Line 11:		Line 11:

	It's a good idea to carry a [[tin]] or two of [[floating eye]] meat in case you lose your telepathy (whether through committing murder or a [[gremlin]] attack).		It's a good idea to carry a [[tin]] or two of [[floating eye]] meat in case you lose your telepathy (whether through committing murder or a [[gremlin]] attack).
		+
		+	==Variants==
		+	In [[EvilHack]] monsters generated as always peaceful are no longer limited to just one race (human) – they now have a wide range of races they can spawn as. The different races include [[human]], [[elf]], [[dwarf]], [[gnome]], [[orc]], [[giant]], [[centaur]], [[nymph]], and [[illithid]]. Killing these formerly peaceful monsters still counts as Murder in EvilHack, even though they are not human.
		+

	==References==		==References==