NetHackWiki talk:Style guide - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom: /* Capitalization of 'the' in artifact names */ embarrassingly late reply

2024-12-14T05:42:17Z

‎Capitalization of 'the' in artifact names: embarrassingly late reply

Ardub23: /* Capitalization of 'the' in artifact names */ new section

2024-10-16T05:03:19Z

‎Capitalization of 'the' in artifact names: new section

Umbire the Phantom: note Rider situation is resolved

2024-10-09T07:38:29Z

note Rider situation is resolved

Furey: /* Looking at Template:Function */ Update. I created and am using Template:Function_343.

2024-07-04T13:36:07Z

‎Looking at Template:Function: Update. I created and am using Template:Function_343.

Umbire the Phantom: /* Futureproofing and source references */ fix formatting

2024-06-29T20:37:31Z

‎Futureproofing and source references: fix formatting

Furey: Looking at Template:Function

2024-06-27T12:32:39Z

Looking at Template:Function

Furey: /* Futureproofing and source references */ proposal over at community portal

2024-06-24T01:08:05Z

‎Futureproofing and source references: proposal over at community portal

Cathartes: /* Futureproofing and source references */ reply

2024-06-24T00:48:24Z

‎Futureproofing and source references: reply

Furey: /* Futureproofing and source references */ my take

2024-06-22T04:29:26Z

‎Futureproofing and source references: my take

Umbire the Phantom: /* Futureproofing and source references */ new section

2024-06-22T04:07:22Z

‎Futureproofing and source references: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:42, 14 December 2024
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	<span class="nowrap">— [[User:Ardub23\|Ardub23]] <small>([[User talk:Ardub23\|talk]])</small></span> 05:03, 16 October 2024 (UTC)		<span class="nowrap">— [[User:Ardub23\|Ardub23]] <small>([[User talk:Ardub23\|talk]])</small></span> 05:03, 16 October 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	:Not especially against this - it's mostly a habit of mine I've come to develop with regards to mentioning artifacts as they're named in the code, but I feel like it wouldn't be too much trouble adopting this rule. Sorry for leaving you hanging for months by the way. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 05:42, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:03, 16 October 2024
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	: No eyeballs received. Oh well.		: No eyeballs received. Oh well.
	: I needed to fix a lot of "Function" references in the source code annotations for NetHack 3.4.3 source. They were resolving to 3.6.1 source. So I went ahead and created [[Template:Function_343]]. I may create "Function_361" as well. It's impossible to make a "Function_367" because NetHackWiki does not have 3.6.7 source code and GitHub has no way (that I can find) to refer to function names in a URL fragment. In 3.6.7 articles, I've been changing "Function" to "Refsrc" with nethack=3.6.7 and comment="function foo". [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 13:35, 4 July 2024 (UTC)		: I needed to fix a lot of "Function" references in the source code annotations for NetHack 3.4.3 source. They were resolving to 3.6.1 source. So I went ahead and created [[Template:Function_343]]. I may create "Function_361" as well. It's impossible to make a "Function_367" because NetHackWiki does not have 3.6.7 source code and GitHub has no way (that I can find) to refer to function names in a URL fragment. In 3.6.7 articles, I've been changing "Function" to "Refsrc" with nethack=3.6.7 and comment="function foo". [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 13:35, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Capitalization of 'the' in artifact names ==
		+
		+	I've recently seen some articles capitalize the word ''the'' in the names of artifacts, such as The Sceptre of Might. I believe that the style guide should advise against capitalizing ''the'' in cases like that.
		+
		+	That style of capitalization appears in-game only when the artifact is unidentified (you'll see "a mace named The Sceptre of Might" for instance). The word ''the'' is not particularly capitalized in any other context, including ''all'' quest dialogue and related text. ("Shaman Karnov glimpses '''the''' Sceptre of Might in your possession.")
		+
		+	The name on an artifact item is a string that kind of exists in a vacuum, whereas quest dialogue is full sentences of running text—much more like what we have on the wiki. That, coupled with the fact that non-capitalized in-game uses greatly outnumber the capitalized one, mean that the convention of following the game's usage favors non-capitalization.
		+
		+	Something like this might be added to § Capitalization:
		+
		+	:Do not capitalize articles like ''the'' after the first word in a sentence, even in proper names like those of artifacts. The Sceptre of Might, for instance, should be styled as "the Sceptre of Might" mid-sentence. However, the first word in the title of a creative work, such as Terry Pratchett's ''The Light Fantastic'', should always be capitalized.
		+
		+	''See also:'' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Capital_letters#Capitalization_of_The Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters § Capitalization of ''The'']
		+
		+	<span class="nowrap">— [[User:Ardub23\|Ardub23]] <small>([[User talk:Ardub23\|talk]])</small></span> 05:03, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:38, 9 October 2024
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	:::Sounds good. I'm working in a sandbox at the moment anyways, so you may likely finish before I do. [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 15:54, 9 June 2024 (UTC)		:::Sounds good. I'm working in a sandbox at the moment anyways, so you may likely finish before I do. [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 15:54, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	::Squared away finally. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 07:38, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

	== Capitalization ==		== Capitalization ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:36, 4 July 2024
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	Expert eyeballs needed at [[Template talk:Function]]. Am I reading it right? If so, maybe style guide should say something about not using it. [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 12:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)		Expert eyeballs needed at [[Template talk:Function]]. Am I reading it right? If so, maybe style guide should say something about not using it. [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 12:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	: No eyeballs received. Oh well.
		+	: I needed to fix a lot of "Function" references in the source code annotations for NetHack 3.4.3 source. They were resolving to 3.6.1 source. So I went ahead and created [[Template:Function_343]]. I may create "Function_361" as well. It's impossible to make a "Function_367" because NetHackWiki does not have 3.6.7 source code and GitHub has no way (that I can find) to refer to function names in a URL fragment. In 3.6.7 articles, I've been changing "Function" to "Refsrc" with nethack=3.6.7 and comment="function foo". [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 13:35, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

@@ Line 290: / Line 290: @@
 The gist of it is: we need to figure out a method to make sure we don't have a repeat of what happened when 3.6 was released, with the inevitable formal release of 3.7. The {{tl|upcoming}} template is doing a decent amount of work in that regard, and the current active contributor base is already pretty good about specifying versions in source references, so I didn't see the need for a proposal at first - but after thinking it over, I'm not only fine with a proposal being made, I'm going to make one myself.
-In light of upcoming versions and the "inherited" situation where many aspects of the wiki's articles and templates were created with the assumption that 3.4.3 would be latest stable for the foreseeable future, I want to know: ''how '''exactly''' ''should the wiki as a whole deal with this situation?'' Obviously there need to be several critical updates made to the Style Guide and other critical pages (which is also in progress, with thanks in part to Furey as above), but I think we should have as directed of a roadmap for the path forward, and I'd like all users that see this, however active they are normally, to pitch in on where we should go. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:07, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
+In light of upcoming versions and the "inherited" situation where many aspects of the wiki's articles and templates were created with the assumption that 3.4.3 would be latest stable for the foreseeable future, I want to know: ''how'' '''exactly''' ''should the wiki as a whole deal with this situation?'' Obviously there need to be several critical updates made to the Style Guide and other critical pages (which is also in progress, with thanks in part to Furey as above), but I think we should have as directed of a roadmap for the path forward, and I'd like all users that see this, however active they are normally, to pitch in on where we should go. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:07, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 : My vision is: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.'' But we can't get there from here in a month. Maybe we can't get there at all before 3.7.0 releases. However, we can do a lot of things, like start purging the facilites that cannot even accommodate explicit version numbers, like all those hidden-version redirection pages like [[allmain.c]]. And talk about the function redirection pages, we can find out if any pages use them, but we cannot find out if any editors use them. I don't, I find functions by having tabs open with 3.4.3 include/extern.h and 3.6.7 include/extern.h. But maybe others do. In other words, there's a lot we can do just with current facilities. If people want to go this way, which I hope we do. [[User:Furey|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey|talk]]) 04:29, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:32, 27 June 2024
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	:::I have a proposal at https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal#Proposal_to_eliminate_bare_filename_redirectors_such_as_.5B.5BDungeon.h.5D.5D_.2C_.5B.5Battrib.c.5D.5D.2C_and_.5B.5BArch.des.5D.5D for anyone interested. [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 01:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)		:::I have a proposal at https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal#Proposal_to_eliminate_bare_filename_redirectors_such_as_.5B.5BDungeon.h.5D.5D_.2C_.5B.5Battrib.c.5D.5D.2C_and_.5B.5BArch.des.5D.5D for anyone interested. [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 01:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Looking at Template:Function ==
		+
		+	Expert eyeballs needed at [[Template talk:Function]]. Am I reading it right? If so, maybe style guide should say something about not using it. [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 12:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:08, 24 June 2024
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	::I agree that every source code reference should specify a version number. Citations using file redirects are the most problematic since there's no easy way to determine the intended version (at least an omitted version in {{tl\|refsrc}} is documented to be 3.4.3). I don't think any active editors use them anymore, since those were last updated for 3.6.1. I recommend deprecating usage of {{tl\|reffunc}} and {{tl\|function}}. [[User:Cathartes\|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes\|talk]]) 00:47, 24 June 2024 (UTC)		::I agree that every source code reference should specify a version number. Citations using file redirects are the most problematic since there's no easy way to determine the intended version (at least an omitted version in {{tl\|refsrc}} is documented to be 3.4.3). I don't think any active editors use them anymore, since those were last updated for 3.6.1. I recommend deprecating usage of {{tl\|reffunc}} and {{tl\|function}}. [[User:Cathartes\|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes\|talk]]) 00:47, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	:::I have a proposal at https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/NetHackWiki:Community_Portal#Proposal_to_eliminate_bare_filename_redirectors_such_as_.5B.5BDungeon.h.5D.5D_.2C_.5B.5Battrib.c.5D.5D.2C_and_.5B.5BArch.des.5D.5D for anyone interested. [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 01:08, 24 June 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:29, 22 June 2024
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	In light of upcoming versions and the "inherited" situation where many aspects of the wiki's articles and templates were created with the assumption that 3.4.3 would be latest stable for the foreseeable future, I want to know: ''how '''exactly''' ''should the wiki as a whole deal with this situation?'' Obviously there need to be several critical updates made to the Style Guide and other critical pages (which is also in progress, with thanks in part to Furey as above), but I think we should have as directed of a roadmap for the path forward, and I'd like all users that see this, however active they are normally, to pitch in on where we should go. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 04:07, 22 June 2024 (UTC)		In light of upcoming versions and the "inherited" situation where many aspects of the wiki's articles and templates were created with the assumption that 3.4.3 would be latest stable for the foreseeable future, I want to know: ''how '''exactly''' ''should the wiki as a whole deal with this situation?'' Obviously there need to be several critical updates made to the Style Guide and other critical pages (which is also in progress, with thanks in part to Furey as above), but I think we should have as directed of a roadmap for the path forward, and I'd like all users that see this, however active they are normally, to pitch in on where we should go. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 04:07, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	: My vision is: ''Every reference to source code must explicitly specify a version number.'' But we can't get there from here in a month. Maybe we can't get there at all before 3.7.0 releases. However, we can do a lot of things, like start purging the facilites that cannot even accommodate explicit version numbers, like all those hidden-version redirection pages like [[allmain.c]]. And talk about the function redirection pages, we can find out if any pages use them, but we cannot find out if any editors use them. I don't, I find functions by having tabs open with 3.4.3 include/extern.h and 3.6.7 include/extern.h. But maybe others do. In other words, there's a lot we can do just with current facilities. If people want to go this way, which I hope we do. [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 04:29, 22 June 2024 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:07, 22 June 2024
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	:Spotted and noted, I don't think there'll be much need to discuss it since it's basically the logical conclusion of the above agreement that was reached - said agreement will be acted on shortly, since I'll start editing the style guide to reflect agreed-upon suggestions, additional guidelines and hard rules. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 04:06, 19 June 2024 (UTC)		:Spotted and noted, I don't think there'll be much need to discuss it since it's basically the logical conclusion of the above agreement that was reached - said agreement will be acted on shortly, since I'll start editing the style guide to reflect agreed-upon suggestions, additional guidelines and hard rules. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 04:06, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Futureproofing and source references ==
		+
		+	So Furey mentioned a proposal about [[User:Furey/References to source code\|dealing with source code references]], which prompted me to consider making this post.
		+
		+	The gist of it is: we need to figure out a method to make sure we don't have a repeat of what happened when 3.6 was released, with the inevitable formal release of 3.7. The {{upcoming}} template is doing a decent amount of work in that regard, and the current active contributor base is already pretty good about specifying versions in source references, so I didn't see the need for a proposal at first - but after thinking it over, I'm not only fine with a proposal being made, I'm going to make one myself.
		+
		+	In light of upcoming versions and the "inherited" situation where many aspects of the wiki's articles and templates were created with the assumption that 3.4.3 would be latest stable for the foreseeable future, I want to know: ''how '''exactly''' ''should the wiki as a whole deal with this situation?'' Obviously there need to be several critical updates made to the Style Guide and other critical pages (which is also in progress, with thanks in part to Furey as above), but I think we should have as directed of a roadmap for the path forward, and I'd like all users that see this, however active they are normally, to pitch in on where we should go. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 04:07, 22 June 2024 (UTC)