Rogue - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom: per my talk page - also some other touch-ups

2026-01-14T22:41:24Z

per my talk page - also some other touch-ups

Umbire the Phantom: some copyedit

2026-01-13T17:34:42Z

some copyedit

Umbire the Phantom: /* Backstabbing versus two weapon combat */ rename header

2026-01-13T17:32:01Z

‎Backstabbing versus two weapon combat: rename header

Umbire the Phantom: /* Special rules */ forgot

2026-01-13T15:18:32Z

‎Special rules: forgot

Umbire the Phantom: table-ify hp/pw, touch-ups, fix 3.6.0 citation

2026-01-13T15:17:42Z

table-ify hp/pw, touch-ups, fix 3.6.0 citation

Tomsod: /* Attributes */ hp/pw

2025-12-22T05:51:58Z

‎Attributes: hp/pw

Umbire the Phantom: /* dNetHack */ detail

2025-10-27T01:50:20Z

‎dNetHack: detail

Umbire the Phantom: copyedit

2025-10-27T01:50:00Z

copyedit

Show changes

Umbire the Phantom: fix up SLASH'EM some

2025-08-28T04:26:29Z

fix up SLASH'EM some

Umbire the Phantom: /* Skills */ saber merge

2025-08-23T12:10:20Z

‎Skills: saber merge

@@ Line 43: / Line 43: @@
 The means and standard deviations were calculated via simulation, whose source code can be found on [[Talk:Role#Initial attribute simulation code|the role article's talk page]], and assumes that all given roles are played as humans&mdash;non-human races will have different attribute means as a result of different attribute maximums.
-The following table summarizes the starting [[HP]] and [[energy]] values for each race of Rogue, as well as their bonuses upon gaining an experience level:
+Human Rogues start with 12 [[HP]] and 2 [[Pw]], while orcish Rogues start with 11 HP and 2 Pw.
 ==Skills==
@@ Line 93: / Line 56: @@
 Rogues get a +1 bonus to [[multishot]] when [[throwing]] dagger weapons.{{refsrc|src/dothrow.c|151|nethack=3.6.7}}
-Rogues can perform [[backstab]]s, granting a +1d([[Experience level|XL]]) damage bonus when they attack a [[fleeing]] monster with a weapon in melee while they are in their base form and are not [[twoweaponing]].{{refsrc|src/uhitm.c|775|nethack=3.6.7}}
+Rogues can perform [[backstab]]s, and gain a a +1d([[Experience level|XL]]) damage bonus to melee weapon attacks that target a [[fleeing]] monster while the Rogue is not [[polymorph]]ed or and not [[twoweaponing]].{{refsrc|src/uhitm.c|775|nethack=3.6.7}}
 Rogues have an {{frac|XL|60}} chance of gaining a bonus to [[untrap]] floor [[trap]]s, and gain a separate bonus if carrying their [[quest artifact]].{{refsrc|src/trap.c|3965|nethack=3.6.7}} They also have double the normal chance of disarming [[container trap]]s, and gain 3 times the level multiplier when calculating their chance of disarming [[door trap]]s.{{refsrc|src/trap.c|4533|nethack=3.6.7}}{{refsrc|src/trap.c|4589|nethack=3.6.7}}

@@ Line 154: / Line 154: @@
 ===Backstabbing vs. two-weaponing===
-Another consideration for Rogues that applies outside of character creation is their primary source of melee damage: While [[backstab]] damage is a decently strong asset for a Rogue in the early game, it is significantly limited by only working against fleeing monsters - Rogues can also reach Expert skill in [[twoweapon]] combat, which outputs much more consistent damage at higher skill levels. Even so, the intermittent boosts to damage from backstabs can be enough to turn difficult encounters around and shore up the Rogue's early offensive power: all of their best melee weapons are one-handed, and judicious use of [[Elbereth]] can scare off monsters frequently; finding an early instrument can also be useful to this end. Remember that if a monster begins to flee while you are performing two weapon combat, you can switch to your primary weapon by pressing {{kbd|shift|X}} if you want to back stab them.{{refsrc|src/wield.c|658|nethack=3.6.7}}
+Another consideration for Rogues that applies outside of character creation is their primary source of melee damage: While [[backstab]] damage is a decently strong asset for a Rogue in the early game, it is significantly limited by only working against fleeing monsters&mdash;Rogues can also reach Expert skill in [[twoweapon]] combat, which outputs much more consistent damage at higher skill levels. Even so, the intermittent boosts to damage from backstabs can be enough to shore up the Rogue's early offensive power and turn difficult encounters around: all of their best melee weapons are one-handed, and judicious use of [[Elbereth]] and musical instruments can frighten monsters frequently. Remember that if a monster begins to flee while you are performing two-weapon combat, you can switch to your primary weapon by pressing {{kbd|shift|X}} if you want to back stab them.{{refsrc|src/wield.c|658|nethack=3.6.7}}
 Twoweaponing can be used to output damage that reaches or surpasses the level of normal melee with artifact weapons, as backstabs with a [[double damage]] artifact weapon deal ([[XL]] + 1) damage on average, which can out-perform many off-hand weapon options&mdash;one of the exceptions is a [[crysknife]] paired with a [[silver dagger]].<!-- Even a +7 trident deals 14.5 (vs. large), which is surpassed at XL 14, but a silver weapon might still be better. --> Before factoring for strength, enchantment and skill bonuses, [[Grayswandir]] (which deals double damage against all monsters) will average 9 damage against most monsters and 19.5 damage against silver-haters, while a crysknife and silver dagger in two-weapon combat yield averages of approximately 7.75 and 18.25 damage. With full strength, skill and +7 enchantments, a single-handed Grayswandir will average 30 and 40.5 while the the crysknife/silver dagger twoweapon averages 35.75 and 46.25; the artifact [[Grimtooth]] averages the same damage as a single crysknife for a Rogue without any additional skill training.

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 For Rogues that start with enough intelligence and plan to branch into spellcasting down the line, it is best to wait until they have a reliable cache of permafood and have sufficiently trained their combat skills&mdash;they can then find a safe place to read [[spellbook]]s, remove any metallic armor and train their spells, with the most ideal books to find being ones for low-level [[divination spells]], [[escape spells]] and [[matter spells]]; any spells that a Rogue cannot or does not plan to use can be used as a source of confusion later in the game. The spells of {{+ of|detect monsters|and=1|jumping}} are among the better options for a Rogue to train with, since they can be used upon spotting targets at a distance to either close in or maintain space accordingly.
-===Backstabbing versus two weapon combat===
+===Backstabbing vs. two-weaponing===
 Another consideration for Rogues that applies outside of character creation is their primary source of melee damage: While [[backstab]] damage is a decently strong asset for a Rogue in the early game, it is significantly limited by only working against fleeing monsters - Rogues can also reach Expert skill in [[twoweapon]] combat, which outputs much more consistent damage at higher skill levels. Even so, the intermittent boosts to damage from backstabs can be enough to turn difficult encounters around and shore up the Rogue's early offensive power: all of their best melee weapons are one-handed, and judicious use of [[Elbereth]] can scare off monsters frequently; finding an early instrument can also be useful to this end. Remember that if a monster begins to flee while you are performing two weapon combat, you can switch to your primary weapon by pressing {{kbd|shift|X}} if you want to back stab them.{{refsrc|src/wield.c|658|nethack=3.6.7}}

@@ Line 99: / Line 99: @@
 Rogues have a higher chance of unlocking [[door]]s and [[container]]s with [[lock pick]]s and [[credit card]]s.{{refsrc|src/lock.c|422|nethack=3.6.7}}{{refsrc|src/lock.c|425|nethack=3.6.7}}{{refsrc|src/lock.c|504|nethack=3.6.7}}{{refsrc|src/lock.c|507|nethack=3.6.7}}
-Rogues are the only role that ''do not'' take an alignment penalty for stealing from a [[shop]] ''or'' pacifying an angry [[shopkeeper]].{{refsrc|src/shk.c|499|nethack=3.6.7}}{{refsrc|src/shk.c|1129|nethack=3.6.7}}
+Rogues are the only role that ''do not'' take an alignment record penalty for stealing from a [[shop]] ''or'' gain a bonus pacifying an angry [[shopkeeper]].{{refsrc|src/shk.c|499|nethack=3.6.7}}{{refsrc|src/shk.c|1129|nethack=3.6.7}}
 ==Rank titles==

@@ Line 43: / Line 43: @@
 The means and standard deviations were calculated via simulation, whose source code can be found on [[Talk:Role#Initial attribute simulation code|the role article's talk page]], and assumes that all given roles are played as humans&mdash;non-human races will have different attribute means as a result of different attribute maximums.
-Human Rogues start with 12 [[HP]], while orcs only get 11; both begin with 2 [[Pw]].
+The following table summarizes the starting [[HP]] and [[energy]] values for each race of Rogue, as well as their bonuses upon gaining an experience level:
 ==Skills==
@@ Line 112: / Line 149: @@
 Rogues looking to train daggers as quickly and often as possible can use a single dagger in melee by [[wielding]] the stack of daggers, then using the [[quiver]] command via {{kbd|shift|Q}} to ready all but one. This assigns the readied daggers to a separate letter automatically, which can also be done manually with the [[adjust]] command; the separate dagger sets can then be given different [[name]]s to prevent the stack from re-merging. Dagger volleys can deal impressive damage, but be careful with peaceful monsters behind your target&mdash;if a thrown dagger kills a target during the multishot, any remaining daggers are likely to fly past them, hit the peaceful monsters and anger them. [[Numeric prefix]]es should be used where necessary to fire fewer daggers at once (usually only one), particularly in areas that have a significant peaceful population such as most [[Minetown]] maps.
-The starting +1 [[leather armor]] is easily superseded by most metallic armor, and armor selection is fairly straightforward in theory: most Rogues will not attempt [[spellcasting]] early on, and do not reliably start with the required intelligence and maximum energy. In practice, a lack of carrying capacity from low starting strength can complicate matters, and a Rogue's armor must both provide reasonable AC without being too heavy. As with many heroes, a [[Dwarvish mithril-coat|dwarvish]] or [[elven mithril-coat]] is an ideal goal for Rogues, since both suits provide much better AC and [[MC2]] for the same [[weight]] as leather armor&mdash;Rogues confident in their abilities can seek out [[Dwarf (monster attribute)|dwarves]] and [[hobbit]]s in the Mines and other areas to relieve them of their armor.
+The starting +1 [[leather armor]] is easily superseded by most metallic armor, and armor selection is fairly straightforward in theory: most Rogues will not attempt [[spellcasting]] early on, and do not reliably start with the required intelligence and maximum energy. In practice, a lack of carrying capacity from low starting strength can complicate matters, and a Rogue's armor must both provide reasonable AC without being too heavy. As with many heroes, a [[Dwarvish mithril-coat|dwarvish]] or [[elven mithril-coat]] is an ideal goal for Rogues, since both suits provide much better AC and [[MC2]] for the same [[weight]] as leather armor&mdash;early Rogues confident in their abilities can seek out [[Dwarf (monster attribute)|dwarves]] and [[hobbit]]s in the Mines and other areas to relieve them of their armor.
 For Rogues that start with enough intelligence and plan to branch into spellcasting down the line, it is best to wait until they have a reliable cache of permafood and have sufficiently trained their combat skills&mdash;they can then find a safe place to read [[spellbook]]s, remove any metallic armor and train their spells, with the most ideal books to find being ones for low-level [[divination spells]], [[escape spells]] and [[matter spells]]; any spells that a Rogue cannot or does not plan to use can be used as a source of confusion later in the game. The spells of {{+ of|detect monsters|and=1|jumping}} are among the better options for a Rogue to train with, since they can be used upon spotting targets at a distance to either close in or maintain space accordingly.
@@ Line 154: / Line 191: @@
 Spellcasting Rogues should seek to reach Skilled in at least one of their spell schools with whatever skill points they have available - performing [[alchemy]] to brew [[potions of gain ability]] may be worthwhile. Divination spells should be raised to Skilled first if possible for the skill level benefits from spells such as {{+ of|detect treasure|identify|magic mapping|or=1|detect monsters}}. Skill in escape spells can be useful for navigation via {{+ of|jumping|or=1|levitation}} spells; matter spells are generally the least useful to advance, since the spells of {{+ of|knock|and=1|wizard lock}} are low-level and can usually be cast reliably, though some Rogues may be willing to advance the skill and employ a [[robe]] in order to use the {{+ of|polymorph}} spell.
-{{todo|Expand this section somewhat - worth covering projectile usage in Gehennom, among other subjects.}}
+{{todo|Expand this section somewhat&mdash;worth covering projectile usage in Gehennom, among other subjects.}}
 ==History==
@@ Line 161: / Line 198: @@
 In [[NetHack 3.4.3]] and previous versions, weapons thrown at fleeing monsters apply backstab damage on each hit. Twoweaponing is relatively unpopular in these versions, since Rogues cannot reach Expert skill in the better [[artifact weapon]]s (besides [[Magicbane]], which is [[Artifact blast|cross-aligned]] and requires a wish) and cannot backstab while doing so; many players instead use the free hand to augment their AC with a shield, since all their best melee weapons are one-handed, and the shield of reflection frees up their amulet and body armor slots for other options if they so desire it.
-In [[NetHack 3.6.0]], backstabbing is made less powerful:{{refsrc|uhitm.c|648|version=NetHack 3.6.0}} it now only occurs when attacking with a single weapon and is exclusive to melee attacks.
+[[NetHack 3.6.0]] introduces the current behavior for backstabbing that restricts it to attacking with a single weapon in melee.{{refsrc|src/uhitm.c|648|version=NetHack 3.6.0}}
 ==Origin==

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:51, 22 December 2025
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	The means and standard deviations were calculated via simulation, whose source code can be found on [[Talk:Role#Initial attribute simulation code\|the role article's talk page]], and assumes that all given roles are played as humans—non-human races will have different attribute means as a result of different attribute maximums.		The means and standard deviations were calculated via simulation, whose source code can be found on [[Talk:Role#Initial attribute simulation code\|the role article's talk page]], and assumes that all given roles are played as humans—non-human races will have different attribute means as a result of different attribute maximums.
		+
		+	Human Rogues start with 12 [[HP]], while orcs only get 11; both begin with 2 [[Pw]].

	==Skills==		==Skills==

@@ Line 183: / Line 183: @@
 ===dNetHack===
 {{main|Rogue/dNetHack}}
-In [[dNetHack]], [[notdNetHack]] and [[notnotdNetHack]], Rogues function mostly the same at their base, but can be played as several other races.
+In [[dNetHack]], [[notdNetHack]] and [[notnotdNetHack]], Rogues function mostly the same as in NetHack 3.4.3 at their base, but can be played as several other races.
 ===SlashTHEM===

@@ Line 179: / Line 179: @@
 In [[SLASH'EM]], Rogues are given a first sacrifice gift in the [[Bat from Hell (SLASH'EM)|Bat from Hell]].
-Rogues start with an [[oilskin sack]] instead of a regular sack, a high amount of gold, scrolls of {{? of|teleportation|and=1|gold detection}}, and either daggers and darts or a [[pistol]] and [[bullet]]s; their skillset and intrinsics are mostly unchanged from ''NetHack'', with the addition of Expert level in [[firearm]]s, and they retain their backstab mechanics from NetHack 3.4.3. The universal ability to twoweapon artifacts also makes it a more viable approach for Rogues, and their [[technique]]s are geared towards inflicting high single-strike damage&mdash;the Bat from Hell is among the most powerful artifact weapons in the game as well, making it a priority for any Rogue.
+Rogues start with an [[oilskin sack]] instead of a regular sack, a high amount of gold, scrolls of {{? of|teleportation|and=1|gold detection}}, and either daggers and darts or a [[Pistol (SLASH'EM)|pistol]] and [[Bullet (SLASH'EM)|bullets]]; their skillset and intrinsics are mostly unchanged from ''NetHack'', with the addition of Expert level in [[firearm]]s, and they retain their backstab mechanics from NetHack 3.4.3. Their [[technique]]s are also geared towards inflicting high single-strike damage&mdash;the universal ability to twoweapon artifacts also makes it a more viable approach for the role. The Bat from Hell is among the most powerful artifact weapons in the game as well, making it a priority for any Rogue.
 ===dNetHack===

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:10, 23 August 2025
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	Rogues start with ''Basic'' skill in short swords and daggers. They use the intelligence stat to cast spells, and their special spell is {{+ of\|detect treasure}}.{{refsrc\|src/role.c\|361\|nethack=3.6.7}}		Rogues start with ''Basic'' skill in short swords and daggers. They use the intelligence stat to cast spells, and their special spell is {{+ of\|detect treasure}}.{{refsrc\|src/role.c\|361\|nethack=3.6.7}}
		+
		+	{{upcoming\|NetHack 3.7.0\|Per {{commit\|296a3ac246ae12218eccff46d3ef79f46eb9068f}}, the scimitar skill is merged into the saber skill.}}

	==Special rules==		==Special rules==