Talk:Altar - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom at 03:43, 16 July 2025

2025-07-16T03:43:58Z

ManOfScience: /* Probability of Converting an Altar or Being Converted Yourself */

2025-07-16T03:39:38Z

‎Probability of Converting an Altar or Being Converted Yourself

Umbire the Phantom: /* Probability of Converting an Altar or Being Converted Yourself */ reply

2025-07-16T03:22:25Z

‎Probability of Converting an Altar or Being Converted Yourself: reply

ManOfScience: /* Probability of Converting an Altar or Being Converted Yourself */

2025-07-16T03:14:06Z

‎Probability of Converting an Altar or Being Converted Yourself

ManOfScience: /* Probability of Converting an Altar or Being Converted Yourself */

2025-07-16T03:05:56Z

‎Probability of Converting an Altar or Being Converted Yourself

ManOfScience: /* Probability of Converting an Altar or Being Converted Yourself */ new section

2025-07-16T03:04:31Z

‎Probability of Converting an Altar or Being Converted Yourself: new section

Furey: Fix source code refs and links to point to the original source code of the comment.

2024-07-08T22:09:17Z

Fix source code refs and links to point to the original source code of the comment.

Tjr: 93% of all games have a non-special, non-temple altar

2013-02-25T06:32:54Z

93% of all games have a non-special, non-temple altar

99.239.147.0: fix cite error

2013-02-24T22:21:18Z

fix cite error

Scorchgeek: /* Altar Generation Probabilities */

2013-02-24T02:45:26Z

‎Altar Generation Probabilities

@@ Line 216: / Line 216: @@
 EDIT
-I found this under https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Sacrifice  ... so never mind, unless adding a link is appropriate.
+I found this under https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Sacrifice  ... so never mind, unless adding a link is appropriate. {{unsigned|ManOfScience}}
-<s>I see that someone mentioned "if your alignment record is poor enough" you yourself might be converted.
+I see that someone mentioned "if your alignment record is poor enough" you yourself might be converted.
 Other than that, I've not yet found spoilers on figuring out when it is safe to attempt an altar conversion.
@@ Line 226: / Line 227: @@
 :Much of that is already covered on the [[sacrifice]] article&mdash;some of it is indeed relevant to altars as well and will likely be addressed when an editor that has the time and energy required gets to it.
-(I have 100 different wiki tasks to juggle at any given moment, and I can't do everything by myself despite how much it may seem otherwise.)</s>
+(I have 100 different wiki tasks to juggle at any given moment, and I can't do everything by myself despite how much it may seem otherwise.) --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 03:43, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 215: / Line 215: @@
 Can someone more competent than me talk about what the variables and odds are when sacrificing on a cross-aligned altar?
-I see that someone mentioned "if your alignment record is poor enough" you yourself might be converted.
+EDIT
 Other than that, I've not yet found spoilers on figuring out when it is safe to attempt an altar conversion.
@@ Line 222: / Line 225: @@
 --[[User:ManOfScience|ManOfScience]] ([[User talk:ManOfScience|talk]]) 03:05, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
-:Much of that is already covered on the [[sacrifice]] article&mdash;some of it is indeed relevant to altars as well and will likely be addressed when an editor that has the time and energy required gets to it. (I have 100 different wiki tasks to juggle at any given moment, and I can't do everything by myself despite how much it may seem otherwise.) --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]])
+:Much of that is already covered on the [[sacrifice]] article&mdash;some of it is indeed relevant to altars as well and will likely be addressed when an editor that has the time and energy required gets to it.

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:22, 16 July 2025
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	(User ZeroOne mentions in discussion that if you _fail_ and convert Yourself instead, then "you lose 3 luck, and your prayer timeout increases by 300")		(User ZeroOne mentions in discussion that if you _fail_ and convert Yourself instead, then "you lose 3 luck, and your prayer timeout increases by 300")
	--[[User:ManOfScience\|ManOfScience]] ([[User talk:ManOfScience\|talk]]) 03:05, 16 July 2025 (UTC)		--[[User:ManOfScience\|ManOfScience]] ([[User talk:ManOfScience\|talk]]) 03:05, 16 July 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	:Much of that is already covered on the [[sacrifice]] article—some of it is indeed relevant to altars as well and will likely be addressed when an editor that has the time and energy required gets to it. (I have 100 different wiki tasks to juggle at any given moment, and I can't do everything by myself despite how much it may seem otherwise.) --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]])

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:14, 16 July 2025
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	While we're looking at code... maybe this would be a good place to spoil the benefits (+Luck?, +Alignment?, possible Boons?) and risks (Possible Crowning?) of a successful Altar conversion.		While we're looking at code... maybe this would be a good place to spoil the benefits (+Luck?, +Alignment?, possible Boons?) and risks (Possible Crowning?) of a successful Altar conversion.
		+	(User ZeroOne mentions in discussion that if you _fail_ and convert Yourself instead, then "you lose 3 luck, and your prayer timeout increases by 300")
	--[[User:ManOfScience\|ManOfScience]] ([[User talk:ManOfScience\|talk]]) 03:05, 16 July 2025 (UTC)		--[[User:ManOfScience\|ManOfScience]] ([[User talk:ManOfScience\|talk]]) 03:05, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:05, 16 July 2025
Line 219:		Line 219:

	While we're looking at code... maybe this would be a good place to spoil the benefits (+Luck?, +Alignment?, possible Boons?) and risks (Possible Crowning?) of a successful Altar conversion.		While we're looking at code... maybe this would be a good place to spoil the benefits (+Luck?, +Alignment?, possible Boons?) and risks (Possible Crowning?) of a successful Altar conversion.
		+	--[[User:ManOfScience\|ManOfScience]] ([[User talk:ManOfScience\|talk]]) 03:05, 16 July 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:04, 16 July 2025
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	::Well he was definitely sacrificing, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten minions (only lawfuls get them through prayer, and then only when in trouble); I'm guessing the OP was just mentioning the crowning because he thought it affects chances of a sacrifice gift (it doesn't, other than requiring you to sacrifice more to reduce prayer timeout). Sacrificing doesn't cause crowning in SLASH'EM, I'm certain. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 03:58, 14 March 2012 (UTC)		::Well he was definitely sacrificing, otherwise he wouldn't have gotten minions (only lawfuls get them through prayer, and then only when in trouble); I'm guessing the OP was just mentioning the crowning because he thought it affects chances of a sacrifice gift (it doesn't, other than requiring you to sacrifice more to reduce prayer timeout). Sacrificing doesn't cause crowning in SLASH'EM, I'm certain. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 03:58, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
	:::Crowning does affect artifact weapon chances. The chance of getting a artifact on sacrifice is 1 in (10 + 2 * artifacts * gifts). A crowned wizard will receive a spellbook which counts as a gift (but not an artifact). Serpent's tongue exists at least, lowering the chance to 1 in 12. If there are other artifacts in existence, '''and the alignment keys and quest rewards are considered artifacts''' the chances of getting magicbane will quickly drop. SLASH'EM tends to have a lot more artifacts in game than vanilla, not only because of the guaranteed artifacts in the quests and One Eyed Sam, but also a lot more base item types that can become artifacts. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 13:29, 14 March 2012 (UTC)		:::Crowning does affect artifact weapon chances. The chance of getting a artifact on sacrifice is 1 in (10 + 2 * artifacts * gifts). A crowned wizard will receive a spellbook which counts as a gift (but not an artifact). Serpent's tongue exists at least, lowering the chance to 1 in 12. If there are other artifacts in existence, '''and the alignment keys and quest rewards are considered artifacts''' the chances of getting magicbane will quickly drop. SLASH'EM tends to have a lot more artifacts in game than vanilla, not only because of the guaranteed artifacts in the quests and One Eyed Sam, but also a lot more base item types that can become artifacts. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 13:29, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Probability of Converting an Altar or Being Converted Yourself ==
		+
		+	Can someone more competent than me talk about what the variables and odds are when sacrificing on a cross-aligned altar?
		+
		+	I see that someone mentioned "if your alignment record is poor enough" you yourself might be converted.
		+	Other than that, I've not yet found spoilers on figuring out when it is safe to attempt an altar conversion.
		+
		+	While we're looking at code... maybe this would be a good place to spoil the benefits (+Luck?, +Alignment?, possible Boons?) and risks (Possible Crowning?) of a successful Altar conversion.

@@ Line 27: / Line 27: @@
 If I sacrifice a unicorn of my own alignment on an unaligned altar, do I turn unaligned?--[[Special:Contributions/112.204.175.46|112.204.175.46]] 15:46, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
-:No, unaligned altars cannot be converted to. [[pray.c#1348]] seems to indicate trying this is the same as trying to convert a second time. --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] 16:16, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
+:No, unaligned altars cannot be converted to. [[Source:NetHack 3.4.3/src/pray.c#1348]] seems to indicate trying this is the same as trying to convert a second time. --[[User:Bcode|Bcode]] 16:16, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
 == Identifying High Altars ==
@@ Line 72: / Line 72: @@
 ::Been doing some code diving &mdash; dangerous for a non-techie like me &mdash; but it seems that sacrificing an unicorn to convert an altar is no more likely than any other monster scacrifice...
 ::And there's a random number calculation I'm not sure I've interpreted correctly:
-:::'''if (rn2(8 + u.ulevel) > 5)''' [[pray.c#line1380]]
+:::'''if (rn2(8 + u.ulevel) > 5)''' [[Source:NetHack 3.4.3/src/pray.c#line1380]]
 :: I think that says, if a random number between 1 and (8 + your XL) is greater than five, then... in the next program lines you convert the altar.
 :: So if I'm experience level 15 right now, that means take a random number between 1 and 23. If that number is 5 or lower, you're down on your luck. Which I was. So I ought to just keep trying with any monsters, not just unicorns... despite what the table implies. &mdash; [[User:Qwip|Qwip]] 02:54, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
@@ Line 158: / Line 158: @@
 --[[User:Lukky513|Lukky513]] 14:34, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
-: Generation probability should be mentioned, but d60 per room [[Source:Mklev.c#line785]] should definitely be improved. For one, it doesn't account for the altars in temples ( 1/5 chance from level 9 on, unless there is already another special room, and the probability for the last part involved). Next point, the probability per level is more useful, but I do not the distribution of rooms per level. Finally, what alignment does the altar get? How does that interact with player and dungeon branch alignment? There is code to prefer dungeon branch alignment, but I'm not sure what it really does, see [[Special_room#Frequency_and_alignment]] for pointers. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:21, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
+: Generation probability should be mentioned, but d60 per room [[Source:NetHack 3.4.3/src/mklev.c#line785]] should definitely be improved. For one, it doesn't account for the altars in temples ( 1/5 chance from level 9 on, unless there is already another special room, and the probability for the last part involved). Next point, the probability per level is more useful, but I do not the distribution of rooms per level. Finally, what alignment does the altar get? How does that interact with player and dungeon branch alignment? There is code to prefer dungeon branch alignment, but I'm not sure what it really does, see [[Special_room#Frequency_and_alignment]] for pointers. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 17:21, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 == Gifts and dungeon levels ==
@@ Line 194: / Line 194: @@
 Does this count include the artifact that you have just received? I.E. Is it counted before or after the gift's creation? --[[Special:Contributions/220.255.1.92|220.255.1.92]] 15:09, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
-: No. {{sourcecode|pray.c|1464}} and  {{sourcecode|pray.c|1480}}. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:57, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
+: No. {{refsrc|nethack=3.4.3|src/pray.c|1464|ref=no}} and  {{refsrc|nethack=3.4.3|src/pray.c|1480|ref=no}}. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 15:57, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
 == Problems displaying this page on Opera Mini (Android) ==

@@ Line 133: / Line 133: @@
 : "There is an independent 1 in 60 chance of each [[special room|non-special]] room containing an altar, which gives a 93% chance of at least one."
 Does this mean a 93% chance of at least one somewhere in the Dungeons of Doom? It's not very specific. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 02:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
 == Praying ==

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 Re the Nethack Brass section: I believe that converting altars can summon a minion in vanilla Nethack too, and I'm certain that it can in Slash'EM.  I haven't time to research the details right now, and I've never played Nethack Brass, but in Nethack/Slash'EM you may be able to kill the minion rather than fleeing from it, or if you do flee you could come back and kill it later. [[User:Ekaterin|Ekaterin]] 10:31, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
 : I never saw a [[minion]] before my first game of [[NetHack brass]], in which at experience level 1, I converted an altar and the lawful god summoned a [[couatl]] against me, at which point I chose to run away! I tend to keep my [[luck]] up, which might help explain why I never encountered minions while converting altars in vanilla or SLASH'EM. --[[User:Kernigh|Kernigh]] 19:52, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
@@ Line 129: / Line 131: @@
 This seems to have been answered, but here's another related issue:
-: "There is an independent 1 in 60 chance of each [[special room|non-special]] room containing an altar,{{refsrc|mklev.c|785}} which gives a 93% chance of at least one."
+: "There is an independent 1 in 60 chance of each [[special room|non-special]] room containing an altar, which gives a 93% chance of at least one."
 Does this mean a 93% chance of at least one somewhere in the Dungeons of Doom? It's not very specific. [[User:Scorchgeek|Scorchgeek]] ([[User talk:Scorchgeek|talk]]) 02:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

@@ Line 127: / Line 127: @@
 What are the probabilities of altars being generated? Do they ever appear randomly outside the main dungeon? Is there a bias against co-aligned gods? (What if you are wearing a helmet of opposite alignment - which alignment counts for bias?)
 [[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 16:42, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
 == Praying ==