Talk:Armor class - Revision history

Actual-nh: /* Monster AC */ MR?

2021-06-06T13:41:47Z

Monster AC: MR?

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:41, 6 June 2021
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	: Makes sense. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 11:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)		: Makes sense. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 11:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

			: I was just thinking it would also make sense to have a listing by MR - ordered by what level of caster has a 50% chance of overcoming it. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 13:41, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Actual-nh: /* Monster AC */ Makes sense

2021-06-06T11:52:24Z

Monster AC: Makes sense

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:52, 6 June 2021
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	I'm thinking we should have a listing of monsters by their base AC, to go with the other lists. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 08:16, 6 June 2021 (UTC)		I'm thinking we should have a listing of monsters by their base AC, to go with the other lists. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 08:16, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

			: Makes sense. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 11:52, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Umbire the Phantom: /* Monster AC */ new section

2021-06-06T08:16:07Z

Monster AC: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:16, 6 June 2021
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	::Basically - it runs through, in order, the shirt, the body armor, with a 1/10 chance the boots, a 1/10 chance the gloves, a 1/5 chance the helm, then the cloak, and finally the shield. It adds up the AC each provided, and when it reaches the number that let you dodge the attack, it says that piece of armor 'deflected' or 'blocked' the attack. This means it has a chance of not saying that at all (because without the AC from gloves, helm and boots it may not get high enough), and that it much less frequently says that about gloves, helm and boots, which makes sense physically. And I agree, it definitely seems purely cosmetic. I suppose it's a way of addressing without changing anything the fact that more armor should make you easier to hit, not harder. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 10:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)		::Basically - it runs through, in order, the shirt, the body armor, with a 1/10 chance the boots, a 1/10 chance the gloves, a 1/5 chance the helm, then the cloak, and finally the shield. It adds up the AC each provided, and when it reaches the number that let you dodge the attack, it says that piece of armor 'deflected' or 'blocked' the attack. This means it has a chance of not saying that at all (because without the AC from gloves, helm and boots it may not get high enough), and that it much less frequently says that about gloves, helm and boots, which makes sense physically. And I agree, it definitely seems purely cosmetic. I suppose it's a way of addressing without changing anything the fact that more armor should make you easier to hit, not harder. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 10:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
	:::Ah, perfect! I've been playing SLASH'EM for four years and roguelikes for over 20, and it's still amazing how much I suck at them. --[[User:Ageddyn\|Ageddyn]] 00:45, 13 June 2011 (UTC)		:::Ah, perfect! I've been playing SLASH'EM for four years and roguelikes for over 20, and it's still amazing how much I suck at them. --[[User:Ageddyn\|Ageddyn]] 00:45, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

			== Monster AC ==

			I'm thinking we should have a listing of monsters by their base AC, to go with the other lists. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 08:16, 6 June 2021 (UTC)

Ageddyn: /* Deflection? */

2011-06-13T00:45:22Z

Deflection?

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:45, 13 June 2011
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	:That's a SLASH'EM specific message. To my knowledge is simply means "You would have gotten hit by this attack if not for x piece of armor". I believe it's purely cosmetic. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 21:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)		:That's a SLASH'EM specific message. To my knowledge is simply means "You would have gotten hit by this attack if not for x piece of armor". I believe it's purely cosmetic. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 21:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
	::Basically - it runs through, in order, the shirt, the body armor, with a 1/10 chance the boots, a 1/10 chance the gloves, a 1/5 chance the helm, then the cloak, and finally the shield. It adds up the AC each provided, and when it reaches the number that let you dodge the attack, it says that piece of armor 'deflected' or 'blocked' the attack. This means it has a chance of not saying that at all (because without the AC from gloves, helm and boots it may not get high enough), and that it much less frequently says that about gloves, helm and boots, which makes sense physically. And I agree, it definitely seems purely cosmetic. I suppose it's a way of addressing without changing anything the fact that more armor should make you easier to hit, not harder. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 10:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)		::Basically - it runs through, in order, the shirt, the body armor, with a 1/10 chance the boots, a 1/10 chance the gloves, a 1/5 chance the helm, then the cloak, and finally the shield. It adds up the AC each provided, and when it reaches the number that let you dodge the attack, it says that piece of armor 'deflected' or 'blocked' the attack. This means it has a chance of not saying that at all (because without the AC from gloves, helm and boots it may not get high enough), and that it much less frequently says that about gloves, helm and boots, which makes sense physically. And I agree, it definitely seems purely cosmetic. I suppose it's a way of addressing without changing anything the fact that more armor should make you easier to hit, not harder. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 10:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
			:::Ah, perfect! I've been playing SLASH'EM for four years and roguelikes for over 20, and it's still amazing how much I suck at them. --[[User:Ageddyn\|Ageddyn]] 00:45, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Ion frigate: /* Deflection? */

2011-06-06T10:32:59Z

Deflection?

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:32, 6 June 2011
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	So how does deflection work, as in the message, "Your plate mail deflects the bat's attack." I have always been under the assumption that more armor pieces are better because it seems like I have a better chance of taking no damage. --[[User:Ageddyn\|Ageddyn]] 20:28, 5 June 2011 (UTC)		So how does deflection work, as in the message, "Your plate mail deflects the bat's attack." I have always been under the assumption that more armor pieces are better because it seems like I have a better chance of taking no damage. --[[User:Ageddyn\|Ageddyn]] 20:28, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
	:That's a SLASH'EM specific message. To my knowledge is simply means "You would have gotten hit by this attack if not for x piece of armor". I believe it's purely cosmetic. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 21:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)		:That's a SLASH'EM specific message. To my knowledge is simply means "You would have gotten hit by this attack if not for x piece of armor". I believe it's purely cosmetic. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 21:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
			::Basically - it runs through, in order, the shirt, the body armor, with a 1/10 chance the boots, a 1/10 chance the gloves, a 1/5 chance the helm, then the cloak, and finally the shield. It adds up the AC each provided, and when it reaches the number that let you dodge the attack, it says that piece of armor 'deflected' or 'blocked' the attack. This means it has a chance of not saying that at all (because without the AC from gloves, helm and boots it may not get high enough), and that it much less frequently says that about gloves, helm and boots, which makes sense physically. And I agree, it definitely seems purely cosmetic. I suppose it's a way of addressing without changing anything the fact that more armor should make you easier to hit, not harder. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 10:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Qazmlpok: /* Deflection? */

2011-06-05T21:53:03Z

Deflection?

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:53, 5 June 2011
Line 48:		Line 48:

	So how does deflection work, as in the message, "Your plate mail deflects the bat's attack." I have always been under the assumption that more armor pieces are better because it seems like I have a better chance of taking no damage. --[[User:Ageddyn\|Ageddyn]] 20:28, 5 June 2011 (UTC)		So how does deflection work, as in the message, "Your plate mail deflects the bat's attack." I have always been under the assumption that more armor pieces are better because it seems like I have a better chance of taking no damage. --[[User:Ageddyn\|Ageddyn]] 20:28, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
			:That's a SLASH'EM specific message. To my knowledge is simply means "You would have gotten hit by this attack if not for x piece of armor". I believe it's purely cosmetic. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 21:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Ageddyn: /* Deflection? */ new section

2011-06-05T20:28:53Z

Deflection?: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:28, 5 June 2011
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	: That looks like a worthwhile thing to sort out. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to do that myself. [[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 10:39, September 19, 2009 (UTC)		: That looks like a worthwhile thing to sort out. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to do that myself. [[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 10:39, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

			== Deflection? ==

			So how does deflection work, as in the message, "Your plate mail deflects the bat's attack." I have always been under the assumption that more armor pieces are better because it seems like I have a better chance of taking no damage. --[[User:Ageddyn\|Ageddyn]] 20:28, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Tjr at 10:39, 19 September 2009

2009-09-19T10:39:57Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:39, 19 September 2009
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	I read the code and can't figure how there is ''always'' a chance to be hit in combat (the key operator looks like a > and not a >=), but that seems to be what everybody says, so I stuck with that narrative in my rewrite; this necessitated reversing the meaning of one of the examples (the one where the target number turns out to be 1 and the monster rolls a 1 on the attack). --[[User:Tehks\|Tehks]] 21:30, September 18, 2009 (UTC)		I read the code and can't figure how there is ''always'' a chance to be hit in combat (the key operator looks like a > and not a >=), but that seems to be what everybody says, so I stuck with that narrative in my rewrite; this necessitated reversing the meaning of one of the examples (the one where the target number turns out to be 1 and the monster rolls a 1 on the attack). --[[User:Tehks\|Tehks]] 21:30, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

			: That looks like a worthwhile thing to sort out. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to do that myself. [[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 10:39, September 19, 2009 (UTC)

Tehks at 21:30, 18 September 2009

2009-09-18T21:30:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:30, 18 September 2009
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	:Right, thanks for the correction. --[[User:Mogri\|Mogri]] 05:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)		:Right, thanks for the correction. --[[User:Mogri\|Mogri]] 05:57, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

			I read the code and can't figure how there is ''always'' a chance to be hit in combat (the key operator looks like a > and not a >=), but that seems to be what everybody says, so I stuck with that narrative in my rewrite; this necessitated reversing the meaning of one of the examples (the one where the target number turns out to be 1 and the monster rolls a 1 on the attack). --[[User:Tehks\|Tehks]] 21:30, September 18, 2009 (UTC)

Djao at 23:23, 25 January 2007

2007-01-25T23:23:52Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:23, 25 January 2007
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	:::What you describe is what Dungeons & Dragons calls a "natural 20", meaning a 20 on the attack die is always a hit. In other words, one in 20 attacks will always be a hit, no matter what your AC is. It just happens less frequently in NetHack. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 03:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)		:::What you describe is what Dungeons & Dragons calls a "natural 20", meaning a 20 on the attack die is always a hit. In other words, one in 20 attacks will always be a hit, no matter what your AC is. It just happens less frequently in NetHack. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 03:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

			::::Well, I was about to dig through the source code to find the relevant portions, but someone has already done this below. The line below from hack.h implies that in Nethack (unlike AD&D), AC is randomly adjusted each time. This is in addition to the effects of natural 20, AC reductions to to-hit chances, damage reductions, etc. [[User:Djao\|Djao]] 23:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

	:After looking at the source code (starting at line [[mhitu.c#line1560]]) it does seem that negative AC reduces damage done. I can't, however, find where it determines if the monster hits or not. It's got to be in there somewhere, but I can't find it. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 02:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)		:After looking at the source code (starting at line [[mhitu.c#line1560]]) it does seem that negative AC reduces damage done. I can't, however, find where it determines if the monster hits or not. It's got to be in there somewhere, but I can't find it. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 02:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:45, 13 June 2011
Line 50:		Line 50:
	:That's a SLASH'EM specific message. To my knowledge is simply means "You would have gotten hit by this attack if not for x piece of armor". I believe it's purely cosmetic. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 21:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)		:That's a SLASH'EM specific message. To my knowledge is simply means "You would have gotten hit by this attack if not for x piece of armor". I believe it's purely cosmetic. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 21:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
	::Basically - it runs through, in order, the shirt, the body armor, with a 1/10 chance the boots, a 1/10 chance the gloves, a 1/5 chance the helm, then the cloak, and finally the shield. It adds up the AC each provided, and when it reaches the number that let you dodge the attack, it says that piece of armor 'deflected' or 'blocked' the attack. This means it has a chance of not saying that at all (because without the AC from gloves, helm and boots it may not get high enough), and that it much less frequently says that about gloves, helm and boots, which makes sense physically. And I agree, it definitely seems purely cosmetic. I suppose it's a way of addressing without changing anything the fact that more armor should make you easier to hit, not harder. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 10:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)		::Basically - it runs through, in order, the shirt, the body armor, with a 1/10 chance the boots, a 1/10 chance the gloves, a 1/5 chance the helm, then the cloak, and finally the shield. It adds up the AC each provided, and when it reaches the number that let you dodge the attack, it says that piece of armor 'deflected' or 'blocked' the attack. This means it has a chance of not saying that at all (because without the AC from gloves, helm and boots it may not get high enough), and that it much less frequently says that about gloves, helm and boots, which makes sense physically. And I agree, it definitely seems purely cosmetic. I suppose it's a way of addressing without changing anything the fact that more armor should make you easier to hit, not harder. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 10:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
			:::Ah, perfect! I've been playing SLASH'EM for four years and roguelikes for over 20, and it's still amazing how much I suck at them. --[[User:Ageddyn\|Ageddyn]] 00:45, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:32, 6 June 2011
Line 49:		Line 49:
	So how does deflection work, as in the message, "Your plate mail deflects the bat's attack." I have always been under the assumption that more armor pieces are better because it seems like I have a better chance of taking no damage. --[[User:Ageddyn\|Ageddyn]] 20:28, 5 June 2011 (UTC)		So how does deflection work, as in the message, "Your plate mail deflects the bat's attack." I have always been under the assumption that more armor pieces are better because it seems like I have a better chance of taking no damage. --[[User:Ageddyn\|Ageddyn]] 20:28, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
	:That's a SLASH'EM specific message. To my knowledge is simply means "You would have gotten hit by this attack if not for x piece of armor". I believe it's purely cosmetic. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 21:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)		:That's a SLASH'EM specific message. To my knowledge is simply means "You would have gotten hit by this attack if not for x piece of armor". I believe it's purely cosmetic. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 21:53, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
			::Basically - it runs through, in order, the shirt, the body armor, with a 1/10 chance the boots, a 1/10 chance the gloves, a 1/5 chance the helm, then the cloak, and finally the shield. It adds up the AC each provided, and when it reaches the number that let you dodge the attack, it says that piece of armor 'deflected' or 'blocked' the attack. This means it has a chance of not saying that at all (because without the AC from gloves, helm and boots it may not get high enough), and that it much less frequently says that about gloves, helm and boots, which makes sense physically. And I agree, it definitely seems purely cosmetic. I suppose it's a way of addressing without changing anything the fact that more armor should make you easier to hit, not harder. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 10:32, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:23, 25 January 2007
Line 8:		Line 8:

	:::What you describe is what Dungeons & Dragons calls a "natural 20", meaning a 20 on the attack die is always a hit. In other words, one in 20 attacks will always be a hit, no matter what your AC is. It just happens less frequently in NetHack. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 03:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)		:::What you describe is what Dungeons & Dragons calls a "natural 20", meaning a 20 on the attack die is always a hit. In other words, one in 20 attacks will always be a hit, no matter what your AC is. It just happens less frequently in NetHack. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 03:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

			::::Well, I was about to dig through the source code to find the relevant portions, but someone has already done this below. The line below from hack.h implies that in Nethack (unlike AD&D), AC is randomly adjusted each time. This is in addition to the effects of natural 20, AC reductions to to-hit chances, damage reductions, etc. [[User:Djao\|Djao]] 23:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

	:After looking at the source code (starting at line [[mhitu.c#line1560]]) it does seem that negative AC reduces damage done. I can't, however, find where it determines if the monster hits or not. It's got to be in there somewhere, but I can't find it. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 02:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)		:After looking at the source code (starting at line [[mhitu.c#line1560]]) it does seem that negative AC reduces damage done. I can't, however, find where it determines if the monster hits or not. It's got to be in there somewhere, but I can't find it. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 02:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)