Talk:Cheating - Revision history

Bluescreenofdeath at 08:30, 30 August 2019

2019-08-30T08:30:04Z

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	:::Well, the exploit you first mentioned would also work on public servers that respected the TZ variable, whereas changing the time wouldn't. So it still closes off one avenue for exploitation. In general, it's impossible to prevent exploits in local play because the user has so much control of the machine. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])		:::Well, the exploit you first mentioned would also work on public servers that respected the TZ variable, whereas changing the time wouldn't. So it still closes off one avenue for exploitation. In general, it's impossible to prevent exploits in local play because the user has so much control of the machine. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])
	::::In fact, a local player could always just modify the game (or similar) to allow whatever they feel like doing, for example to take out the Friday 13th luck penalty entirely. (Or they could attach a debugger and modify things as the game is running... the possibilities don't seem to end.) In fact, I don't even mind that sort of thing as long as they're being clear about the modifications they made. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 17:03, 14 February 2015 (UTC)		::::In fact, a local player could always just modify the game (or similar) to allow whatever they feel like doing, for example to take out the Friday 13th luck penalty entirely. (Or they could attach a debugger and modify things as the game is running... the possibilities don't seem to end.) In fact, I don't even mind that sort of thing as long as they're being clear about the modifications they made. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 17:03, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

			== What if I want a new moon on a Friday the 13th? ==

			Is it cheating if I change my system clock to a date and time that is both a Friday the 13th and a new moon, and possibly make it midnight too? After all, doing so makes the game strictly harder and I'm not sure if there is any way for the player to use that to their advantage ;) --[[User:Bluescreenofdeath\|Bluescreenofdeath]] ([[User talk:Bluescreenofdeath\|talk]]) 08:29, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Luna: Update link in no-longer-true statement

2018-01-07T15:36:10Z

Update link in no-longer-true statement

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	* ''Difficult-to-kill shopkeeper'': [[One-Eyed Sam]] already is just that, in [[Unnethack]] (and [[Slashem]]). Maybe you could try these [[variant]]s, to see if you like them.		* ''Difficult-to-kill shopkeeper'': [[One-Eyed Sam]] already is just that, in [[Unnethack]] (and [[Slashem]]). Maybe you could try these [[variant]]s, to see if you like them.
	* ''Cheating'': Guessing between the lines - are you shocked that the game encourages amoral behavior?		* ''Cheating'': Guessing between the lines - are you shocked that the game encourages amoral behavior?
	* ''Touch the code'': Vanilla NetHack [[NetHackWiki:~~Next_version_pool~~\|isn't developed anymore]], but there are lots of active offshoots. Maybe you could run your idea by [[User:Bhaak]] (bhaak in [[freenode]]), [[User:Ais523]] (ais523 in [[freenode]]), [[User:SGrunt]], [[User:Bulwersator]], or the people who post new variants to [http://bilious.alt.org/rgrn/ RGRN]. [[Roguebasin:NetHack#Variants]] is also a fruitful venue if you're interested in development. By the way, Game devs sometimes also need people to play-test their game, and/or someone to tell them their work matters. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr\|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2013 (UTC)		* ''Touch the code'': <del>Vanilla NetHack [[NetHackWiki:Next_version_pool_3.4.3\|isn't developed anymore]], but</del> there are lots of active offshoots. Maybe you could run your idea by [[User:Bhaak]] (bhaak in [[freenode]]), [[User:Ais523]] (ais523 in [[freenode]]), [[User:SGrunt]], [[User:Bulwersator]], or the people who post new variants to [http://bilious.alt.org/rgrn/ RGRN]. [[Roguebasin:NetHack#Variants]] is also a fruitful venue if you're interested in development. By the way, Game devs sometimes also need people to play-test their game, and/or someone to tell them their work matters. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr\|talk]]) 18:22, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

	:(FWIW, as far as I know [[GruntHack]] isn't being developed anymore either.) —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 11:32, 7 April 2013 (UTC)		:(FWIW, as far as I know [[GruntHack]] isn't being developed anymore either.) —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 11:32, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

DoubleU: /* Hangup Saves */

2017-12-06T05:59:28Z

Hangup Saves

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	[[Special:Contributions/71.139.0.144\|71.139.0.144]] 05:07, 17 September 2013 (UTC)		[[Special:Contributions/71.139.0.144\|71.139.0.144]] 05:07, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

			Does this refer to quitting the game an illegitimate way so as to undo a stupid mistake, or merely an honest mistake? (E.g. You make a mistake in Sokoban, or you sell the wrong thing you couldn't have known.) Because I tried this with earlier versions, and it didn't work; instead, I discovered a nice feature where the game simply saved-and-quit for me, making for an easier way to save. I'm quite sorry they didn't keep that feature, or bug fix, or whatever you call it. [[User:DoubleU\|DoubleU]] ([[User talk:DoubleU\|talk]]) 05:59, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

	== Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties ==		== Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties ==

Bcode: /* Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties */ yeah, locally it can't be prevented, but then again there's probably little need

2015-02-14T17:03:01Z

Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties: yeah, locally it can't be prevented, but then again there's probably little need

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:03, 14 February 2015
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	::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time). Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)		::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time). Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
	:::Well, the exploit you first mentioned would also work on public servers that respected the TZ variable, whereas changing the time wouldn't. So it still closes off one avenue for exploitation. In general, it's impossible to prevent exploits in local play because the user has so much control of the machine. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])		:::Well, the exploit you first mentioned would also work on public servers that respected the TZ variable, whereas changing the time wouldn't. So it still closes off one avenue for exploitation. In general, it's impossible to prevent exploits in local play because the user has so much control of the machine. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])
			::::In fact, a local player could always just modify the game (or similar) to allow whatever they feel like doing, for example to take out the Friday 13th luck penalty entirely. (Or they could attach a debugger and modify things as the game is running... the possibilities don't seem to end.) In fact, I don't even mind that sort of thing as long as they're being clear about the modifications they made. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 17:03, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Ais523: /* Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties */ my fix still helps on public servers

2015-02-14T16:57:46Z

Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties: my fix still helps on public servers

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:57, 14 February 2015
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	:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])		:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])
	::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time). Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)		::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time). Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
			:::Well, the exploit you first mentioned would also work on public servers that respected the TZ variable, whereas changing the time wouldn't. So it still closes off one avenue for exploitation. In general, it's impossible to prevent exploits in local play because the user has so much control of the machine. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])

Kdz: /* Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties */

2015-02-14T13:21:14Z

Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:21, 14 February 2015
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	I realized today was Friday the 13th... but not everywhere in the world. So 'env TZ=SomeZoneNotToday nethack' can be used to avoid the luck penalty. Could also be used to push one in or out of new/full moon days. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 15:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)		I realized today was Friday the 13th... but not everywhere in the world. So 'env TZ=SomeZoneNotToday nethack' can be used to avoid the luck penalty. Could also be used to push one in or out of new/full moon days. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 15:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
	:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])		:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])
	::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time. Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)		::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time). Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Kdz: /* Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties */

2015-02-14T13:20:33Z

Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:20, 14 February 2015
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	I realized today was Friday the 13th... but not everywhere in the world. So 'env TZ=SomeZoneNotToday nethack' can be used to avoid the luck penalty. Could also be used to push one in or out of new/full moon days. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 15:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)		I realized today was Friday the 13th... but not everywhere in the world. So 'env TZ=SomeZoneNotToday nethack' can be used to avoid the luck penalty. Could also be used to push one in or out of new/full moon days. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 15:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
	:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])		:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])
			::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time. Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

Ais523: /* Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties */ fixed in NH4

2015-02-13T15:50:59Z

Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties: fixed in NH4

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:50, 13 February 2015
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	I realized today was Friday the 13th... but not everywhere in the world. So 'env TZ=SomeZoneNotToday nethack' can be used to avoid the luck penalty. Could also be used to push one in or out of new/full moon days. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 15:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)		I realized today was Friday the 13th... but not everywhere in the world. So 'env TZ=SomeZoneNotToday nethack' can be used to avoid the luck penalty. Could also be used to push one in or out of new/full moon days. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 15:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
			:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])

Kdz: /* Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties */ new section

2015-02-13T15:25:41Z

Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties: new section

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	[[Special:Contributions/71.139.0.144\|71.139.0.144]] 05:07, 17 September 2013 (UTC)		[[Special:Contributions/71.139.0.144\|71.139.0.144]] 05:07, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

			== Changing timezones to avoid luck penalties ==

			I realized today was Friday the 13th... but not everywhere in the world. So 'env TZ=SomeZoneNotToday nethack' can be used to avoid the luck penalty. Could also be used to push one in or out of new/full moon days. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 15:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

71.139.0.144 at 05:07, 17 September 2013

2013-09-17T05:07:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:07, 17 September 2013
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	:(FWIW, as far as I know [[GruntHack]] isn't being developed anymore either.) —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 11:32, 7 April 2013 (UTC)		:(FWIW, as far as I know [[GruntHack]] isn't being developed anymore either.) —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 11:32, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

			==Hangup Saves==

			This cheat is just too powerful, and sometimes I can't resist exploiting it. It's also a fixable bug or, if you prefer, design flaw. I only play [[Slashem]] anymore... maybe I should work up a patch and try to get it installed on crash-override so I'm not tempted. Folks could patch the other servers, as I doubt I'm the only one who exploits this - it's too freaking obvious.

			(There are different approaches, but the simplest one I see is to buffer all the message output until the code is wanting user input. Thus all negative effects of a user action are locked in by the time the user sees the 1st message showing them their error.)

			- Fizzbinary 9/16/13
			[[Special:Contributions/71.139.0.144\|71.139.0.144]] 05:07, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:03, 14 February 2015
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	::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time). Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)		::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time). Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
	:::Well, the exploit you first mentioned would also work on public servers that respected the TZ variable, whereas changing the time wouldn't. So it still closes off one avenue for exploitation. In general, it's impossible to prevent exploits in local play because the user has so much control of the machine. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])		:::Well, the exploit you first mentioned would also work on public servers that respected the TZ variable, whereas changing the time wouldn't. So it still closes off one avenue for exploitation. In general, it's impossible to prevent exploits in local play because the user has so much control of the machine. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])
			::::In fact, a local player could always just modify the game (or similar) to allow whatever they feel like doing, for example to take out the Friday 13th luck penalty entirely. (Or they could attach a debugger and modify things as the game is running... the possibilities don't seem to end.) In fact, I don't even mind that sort of thing as long as they're being clear about the modifications they made. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 17:03, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:57, 14 February 2015
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	:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])		:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])
	::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time). Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)		::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time). Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)
			:::Well, the exploit you first mentioned would also work on public servers that respected the TZ variable, whereas changing the time wouldn't. So it still closes off one avenue for exploitation. In general, it's impossible to prevent exploits in local play because the user has so much control of the machine. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:21, 14 February 2015
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	I realized today was Friday the 13th... but not everywhere in the world. So 'env TZ=SomeZoneNotToday nethack' can be used to avoid the luck penalty. Could also be used to push one in or out of new/full moon days. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 15:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)		I realized today was Friday the 13th... but not everywhere in the world. So 'env TZ=SomeZoneNotToday nethack' can be used to avoid the luck penalty. Could also be used to push one in or out of new/full moon days. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 15:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
	:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])		:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])
	::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time. Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)		::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time). Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:20, 14 February 2015
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	I realized today was Friday the 13th... but not everywhere in the world. So 'env TZ=SomeZoneNotToday nethack' can be used to avoid the luck penalty. Could also be used to push one in or out of new/full moon days. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 15:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)		I realized today was Friday the 13th... but not everywhere in the world. So 'env TZ=SomeZoneNotToday nethack' can be used to avoid the luck penalty. Could also be used to push one in or out of new/full moon days. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 15:25, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
	:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])		:I actually fixed this in NetHack 4. Once you start a game, the timezone for that game is locked and can't change after reloading a save. [[User:Ais523\|Ais523]] ([[User talk:Ais523\|talk]])
			::Only problem with the fix is that it not travel friendly. Personally I rather have the game use local time when not cheating... figuring that those who want to cheat will find a way around the fix (such as changing the system time. Not a big deal regardless. --[[User:Kdz\|Kdz]] ([[User talk:Kdz\|talk]]) 13:20, 14 February 2015 (UTC)