Talk:Cleric - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom: Umbire the Phantom moved page Talk:Priest to Talk:Cleric: same as Cave Dweller, NetHack 5 update

2026-05-05T04:02:43Z

Umbire the Phantom moved page Talk:Priest to Talk:Cleric: same as Cave Dweller, NetHack 5 update

← Older revision	Revision as of 04:02, 5 May 2026
(No difference)

Actual-nh: /* Guidebook problems */ Interesting

2021-03-06T23:50:53Z

Guidebook problems: Interesting

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	The "physiological need for water" is the basis for liquids not breaking the foodless conduct, and the Guidebook states it in a way that to me - who is also on the autism spectrum, '''''thank you''''' - can readily recognize as such. That it's not clear to you may not be your fault, but neither is it the Guidebook's in this particular case. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 23:02, 6 March 2021 (UTC)		The "physiological need for water" is the basis for liquids not breaking the foodless conduct, and the Guidebook states it in a way that to me - who is also on the autism spectrum, '''''thank you''''' - can readily recognize as such. That it's not clear to you may not be your fault, but neither is it the Guidebook's in this particular case. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 23:02, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

			: Interesting. I was trying to find an explanation for why we were reading it so differently; I did not mean to offend (and do understand the strong desire to have things done right...). (This may be also an aspect of why I don't particularly like "spectrum", which to me implies one dimension of variation - there are rather more.) I am evidently not the only one to interpret the Guidebook that way - see the provided link - but the same is certainly true of you (e.g., the Guidebook's authors). -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 23:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Umbire the Phantom: /* Guidebook problems */ 🙄

2021-03-06T23:02:25Z

Guidebook problems: 🙄

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	::::BTW, further evidence on this: see [[Why_do_I_keep_dying?#Drinking_water]]. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:53, 6 March 2021 (UTC)		::::BTW, further evidence on this: see [[Why_do_I_keep_dying?#Drinking_water]]. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:53, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

			"I do have some ability to anticipate how people new to a subject can read a statement."

			The "physiological need for water" is the basis for liquids not breaking the foodless conduct, and the Guidebook states it in a way that to me - who is also on the autism spectrum, '''''thank you''''' - can readily recognize as such. That it's not clear to you may not be your fault, but neither is it the Guidebook's in this particular case. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 23:02, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Actual-nh: /* Guidebook problems */ See "Why do I keep dying?"

2021-03-06T22:53:58Z

Guidebook problems: See "Why do I keep dying?"

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	:::You are interpreting it in light of knowing that NetHack characters don't need liquids specifically. To me, it (without clarification) suggests that characters '''in the game''' do have a physiological need for water, and that is why they're still allowed to consume it under a [[foodless]] conduct. (A more rational way to state it is that foodless is doing without the food portion of "food and drink".) Admittedly, given that I have Asperger's, I may be interpreting it differently than most readers; OTOH, thanks to over 20 years of teaching experience, I do have some ability to anticipate how people new to a subject can read a statement.		:::You are interpreting it in light of knowing that NetHack characters don't need liquids specifically. To me, it (without clarification) suggests that characters '''in the game''' do have a physiological need for water, and that is why they're still allowed to consume it under a [[foodless]] conduct. (A more rational way to state it is that foodless is doing without the food portion of "food and drink".) Admittedly, given that I have Asperger's, I may be interpreting it differently than most readers; OTOH, thanks to over 20 years of teaching experience, I do have some ability to anticipate how people new to a subject can read a statement.
	:::Another way to look at this is a more-specific version of Murphy's Law (which my experience has taught me is eminently correct): If there are multiple ways to read something, at least some people are going to interpret it wrongly. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)		:::Another way to look at this is a more-specific version of Murphy's Law (which my experience has taught me is eminently correct): If there are multiple ways to read something, at least some people are going to interpret it wrongly. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

			::::BTW, further evidence on this: see [[Why_do_I_keep_dying?#Drinking_water]]. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:53, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Actual-nh: /* Guidebook problems */

2021-03-06T22:51:06Z

Guidebook problems

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	:::You are interpreting it in light of knowing that NetHack characters don't need liquids specifically. To me, it (without clarification) suggests that characters '''in the game''' do have a physiological need for water, and that is why they're still allowed to consume it under a [[foodless]] conduct. (A more rational way to state it is that foodless is doing without the food portion of "food and drink".) Admittedly, given that I have Asperger's, I may be interpreting it differently than most readers; OTOH, thanks to over 20 years of teaching experience, I do have some ability to anticipate how people new to a subject can read a statement.		:::You are interpreting it in light of knowing that NetHack characters don't need liquids specifically. To me, it (without clarification) suggests that characters '''in the game''' do have a physiological need for water, and that is why they're still allowed to consume it under a [[foodless]] conduct. (A more rational way to state it is that foodless is doing without the food portion of "food and drink".) Admittedly, given that I have Asperger's, I may be interpreting it differently than most readers; OTOH, thanks to over 20 years of teaching experience, I do have some ability to anticipate how people new to a subject can read a statement.
	:::Another way to look at this is a more-specific version of Murphy's Law (which my experience has taught me is eminently correct): If there are multiple ways to read something, at least some people are going to interpret ~~something~~ wrongly. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)		:::Another way to look at this is a more-specific version of Murphy's Law (which my experience has taught me is eminently correct): If there are multiple ways to read something, at least some people are going to interpret it wrongly. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Actual-nh: /* Guidebook problems */ We are interpreting it differently

2021-03-06T22:50:28Z

Guidebook problems: We are interpreting it differently

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	::Also [[:File:GuidebookExcerptConducts.png\|the initial gripe you've based this on isn't even correct.]] --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 22:33, 6 March 2021 (UTC)		::Also [[:File:GuidebookExcerptConducts.png\|the initial gripe you've based this on isn't even correct.]] --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 22:33, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

			:::You are interpreting it in light of knowing that NetHack characters don't need liquids specifically. To me, it (without clarification) suggests that characters '''in the game''' do have a physiological need for water, and that is why they're still allowed to consume it under a [[foodless]] conduct. (A more rational way to state it is that foodless is doing without the food portion of "food and drink".) Admittedly, given that I have Asperger's, I may be interpreting it differently than most readers; OTOH, thanks to over 20 years of teaching experience, I do have some ability to anticipate how people new to a subject can read a statement.
			:::Another way to look at this is a more-specific version of Murphy's Law (which my experience has taught me is eminently correct): If there are multiple ways to read something, at least some people are going to interpret something wrongly. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Umbire the Phantom: /* Guidebook problems */

2021-03-06T22:34:20Z

Guidebook problems

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	:::Ouch! Sorry about that... I can see how you would be rather irked. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:25, 6 March 2021 (UTC)		:::Ouch! Sorry about that... I can see how you would be rather irked. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:25, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

	::Also [[:File:GuidebookExcerptConducts.png\|the initial gripe you've based this ~~one~~ isn't even correct.]] --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 22:33, 6 March 2021 (UTC)		::Also [[:File:GuidebookExcerptConducts.png\|the initial gripe you've based this on isn't even correct.]] --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 22:33, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Umbire the Phantom: /* Guidebook problems */

2021-03-06T22:33:23Z

Guidebook problems

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	:::Ouch! Sorry about that... I can see how you would be rather irked. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:25, 6 March 2021 (UTC)		:::Ouch! Sorry about that... I can see how you would be rather irked. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:25, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

			::Also [[:File:GuidebookExcerptConducts.png\|the initial gripe you've based this one isn't even correct.]] --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 22:33, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Actual-nh: /* Guidebook problems */ Sorry about that!

2021-03-06T22:25:54Z

Guidebook problems: Sorry about that!

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	:There is being clear and then there is excessive elaboration. As I'd stated, there was already an acknowledgement that I had added into the text - which, as it so happens, I was in the middle of adding the words in parenthesis to when I got edit conflicted. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 22:00, 6 March 2021 (UTC)		:There is being clear and then there is excessive elaboration. As I'd stated, there was already an acknowledgement that I had added into the text - which, as it so happens, I was in the middle of adding the words in parenthesis to when I got edit conflicted. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 22:00, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

			:::Ouch! Sorry about that... I can see how you would be rather irked. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:25, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

Umbire the Phantom: /* Guidebook problems */

2021-03-06T22:01:06Z

Guidebook problems

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:01, 6 March 2021
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	To me, the guidebook's mention of prayer with priests is even worse than the "physiological need" for liquids mention under the "foodless" conduct (a need that characters do not, in fact, suffer from). It certainly tricked me when I first read it. (I'm sorry if I'm being a bit stubborn, but it is preferable if an informational site is clear, not allusive.) -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 17:39, 6 March 2021 (UTC)		To me, the guidebook's mention of prayer with priests is even worse than the "physiological need" for liquids mention under the "foodless" conduct (a need that characters do not, in fact, suffer from). It certainly tricked me when I first read it. (I'm sorry if I'm being a bit stubborn, but it is preferable if an informational site is clear, not allusive.) -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 17:39, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

			:There is being clear and then there is excessive elaboration. As I'd stated, there was already an acknowledgement that I had added into the text - which, as it so happens, I was in the middle of adding the words in parenthesis to when I got edit conflicted. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 22:00, 6 March 2021 (UTC)