Talk:Credit cloning - Revision history

Qazmlpok: /* confusions about credit cloning */

2010-03-25T18:22:55Z

‎confusions about credit cloning

98.177.241.25: /* confusions about credit cloning */ new section

2010-03-25T07:16:07Z

‎confusions about credit cloning: new section

Ekaterin: /* pet carrying capacity */

2009-05-12T08:59:07Z

‎pet carrying capacity

Tjr: /* table might be 1-2 off */ new section

2009-05-11T16:13:18Z

‎table might be 1-2 off: new section

Tjr: /* pet carrying capacity */

2009-03-18T17:38:54Z

‎pet carrying capacity

Tjr at 20:22, 16 March 2009

2009-03-16T20:22:50Z

Action 52 at 23:07, 9 March 2008

2008-03-09T23:07:05Z

216.235.8.24 at 18:48, 21 November 2007

2007-11-21T18:48:37Z

216.235.8.24 at 18:47, 21 November 2007

2007-11-21T18:47:21Z

Zaffle at 04:27, 5 August 2007

2007-08-05T04:27:50Z

@@ Line 58: / Line 58: @@
 . There is no need to have your pet steal gold where it is first mentioned. That belongs at the end when all possible gold has been extracted from the shopkeeper for a single round.. Putting the gold two steps in from the doorway should be mentioned as the best place from which to have the pet steal it.
 . It needs to be mentioned to drop all gold after each round of selling just-bought items or already owned items, and that doing so adds to credit so that several rounds of buying and selling can be done before stealing the gold from the shop, and also that dropping the gold before the buying half of a round prevents the shopkeeper from taking gold back from your inventory to pay for stuff.
 . It needs to be mentioned that pets, like players, will need nourishment to make this work.
 . It needs to be mentioned that tripe rations / apples or carrots as appropriate in open inventory are also helpful to speed stealing by keeping pet-within-shop close to the PC and thus to the gold.
 . It needs to be mentioned that gold can be split into several piles near the door if the pet is not able to steal it all at once because it is too heavy.
 . It needs to be mentioned that the pile should be created next to a wall where a typed "y" will not cause motion, because the player is going to want to hold down the "y" key to answer repetitive inquiries from the shopkeeper.
 . The highest speed strategy (to save steps) is to drop the newly acquired gold each time on the pile, being careful not to pick it back up, in rounds of buying and selling, and then to pick it up and carry it to the door for stealing only when all possible buy/sell cycles have been exhausted.
 . Dropping all owned items brought into the shop by the PC, appropriate to the shop, and not needed for self defense or nourishment, to add to gold dropped, should go with creating the pile initially, not be mentioned later.
+:Probably should be mentioned. The problem is that you'll probably want to buy all that stuff back, and with shopkeeper markup prices will just require additional cloning. Plus if something should go wrong, i.e. the pet suddenly dies in combat or something similar you'll lose all those items until you can resume cloning. Just risking your gold is infinitely safer, as about the only use for your gold is priests and shopkeepers.
@@ Line 78: / Line 85: @@
 [[Special:Contributions/98.177.241.25|98.177.241.25]] 07:16, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:16, 25 March 2010
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	==todo: clarify 2 bags==		==todo: clarify 2 bags==
	Someone should be clarify there are two bags involved - one filled with gold that the pet steals, lying on the floor most of the time, and the other to make repeatedly dropping and picking up a lot of items more convenient. I just don't know where/how to put it without worsening readibility.[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 16:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)		Someone should be clarify there are two bags involved - one filled with gold that the pet steals, lying on the floor most of the time, and the other to make repeatedly dropping and picking up a lot of items more convenient. I just don't know where/how to put it without worsening readibility.[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 16:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
		+
		+	== confusions about credit cloning ==
		+
		+	the description of credit cloning is confused and incomplete
		+
		+
		+
		+	1. There is no need to have your pet steal gold where it is first mentioned. That belongs at the end when all possible gold has been extracted from the shopkeeper for a single round.. Putting the gold two steps in from the doorway should be mentioned as the best place from which to have the pet steal it.
		+
		+	2. It needs to be mentioned to drop all gold after each round of selling just-bought items or already owned items, and that doing so adds to credit so that several rounds of buying and selling can be done before stealing the gold from the shop, and also that dropping the gold before the buying half of a round prevents the shopkeeper from taking gold back from your inventory to pay for stuff.
		+
		+	3. It needs to be mentioned that pets, like players, will need nourishment to make this work.
		+
		+	4. It needs to be mentioned that tripe rations / apples or carrots as appropriate in open inventory are also helpful to speed stealing by keeping pet-within-shop close to the PC and thus to the gold.
		+
		+	5. It needs to be mentioned that gold can be split into several piles near the door if the pet is not able to steal it all at once because it is too heavy.
		+
		+	6. It needs to be mentioned that the pile should be created next to a wall where a typed "y" will not cause motion, because the player is going to want to hold down the "y" key to answer repetitive inquiries from the shopkeeper.
		+
		+	7. The highest speed strategy (to save steps) is to drop the newly acquired gold each time on the pile, being careful not to pick it back up, in rounds of buying and selling, and then to pick it up and carry it to the door for stealing only when all possible buy/sell cycles have been exhausted.
		+
		+	8. Dropping all owned items brought into the shop by the PC, appropriate to the shop, and not needed for self defense or nourishment, to add to gold dropped, should go with creating the pile initially, not be mentioned later.
		+
		+
		+
		+	Kent Paul Dolan, xanthian@well.com, in case I don't have a siggie set up here in advance, which a preview shows that I don't..
		+
		+	[[Special:Contributions/98.177.241.25\|98.177.241.25]] 07:16, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:59, 12 May 2009
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	[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 17:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)		[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 17:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
		+
		+	The table can't be right - I have seen large cats and dogs pick up plate mails. It seems to me that a strong monster can carry at least as much as a human, or more if the strong monster is heavier than a human. Some more lines from [[Mon.c#max_mon_load]]:
		+
		+	941. if (!mtmp->data->cwt)
		+	942. maxload = (MAX_CARR_CAP * (long)mtmp->data->msize) / MZ_HUMAN;
		+	943. else if (!strongmonst(mtmp->data)
		+	944. \|\| (strongmonst(mtmp->data) && (mtmp->data->cwt > WT_HUMAN)))
		+	945. maxload = (MAX_CARR_CAP * (long)mtmp->data->cwt) / WT_HUMAN;
		+	946. else maxload = MAX_CARR_CAP; /strong monsters w/cwt <= WT_HUMAN/
		+	947.
		+	948. if (!strongmonst(mtmp->data)) maxload /= 2;
		+
		+	i.e. the code does not exactly match the comments here. I'll work out the exact details and correct the article as soon as possible.
		+	[[User:Ekaterin\|Ekaterin]] 08:59, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

	== table might be 1-2 off ==		== table might be 1-2 off ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:13, 11 May 2009
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	[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 17:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)		[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 17:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
		+
		+	== table might be 1-2 off ==
		+
		+	I applied the formula in the source code and rounded after each *, /, + ... I am not sure if the integer division "%" in C rounds or cuts off, so the numbers might be 1-2 off. [[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 16:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
		+
		+	==todo: clarify 2 bags==
		+	Someone should be clarify there are two bags involved - one filled with gold that the pet steals, lying on the floor most of the time, and the other to make repeatedly dropping and picking up a lot of items more convenient. I just don't know where/how to put it without worsening readibility.[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 16:13, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:38, 18 March 2009
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	A pet's carrying capacity is both a limiting factor and hard to guess in my experience. Obviously, a little dog won't steal a plate mail, but just how much can you put into that bag of holding? I don't know where to look, could someone else please provide some numbers?		A pet's carrying capacity is both a limiting factor and hard to guess in my experience. Obviously, a little dog won't steal a plate mail, but just how much can you put into that bag of holding? I don't know where to look, could someone else please provide some numbers?
	[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 20:22, 16 March 2009 (UTC)		[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 20:22, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
		+
		+	update: source diving isn't all that hard - copy'n'paste from
		+	[[Mon.c#max_mon_load]]:
		+
		+	/* Base monster carrying capacity is equal to human maximum
		+	934. * carrying capacity, or half human maximum if not strong.
		+	935. * (for a polymorphed player, the value used would be the
		+	936. * non-polymorphed carrying capacity instead of max/half max).
		+	937. * This is then modified by the ratio between the monster weights
		+	938. * and human weights. Corpseless monsters are given a capacity
		+	939. * proportional to their size instead of weight.
		+	940. */
		+
		+	[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 17:38, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:22, 16 March 2009
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	I disagree. Credit cloning in a deli takes forever because the items for sale there are so cheap. The best shop to rob has a few expensive items, otherwise you have to pick up and drop everything a gazillion times.		I disagree. Credit cloning in a deli takes forever because the items for sale there are so cheap. The best shop to rob has a few expensive items, otherwise you have to pick up and drop everything a gazillion times.
	:Well, if you can get a stack of holy/unholy water that speeds things up. But still, I'm with you that there are much better stores to rob than delicatessens. Shops with expensive lightweight items like rings and wands are best. Will edit the strategy section to say as much. [[User:Action 52\|Action 52]] 23:07, 9 March 2008 (UTC)action		:Well, if you can get a stack of holy/unholy water that speeds things up. But still, I'm with you that there are much better stores to rob than delicatessens. Shops with expensive lightweight items like rings and wands are best. Will edit the strategy section to say as much. [[User:Action 52\|Action 52]] 23:07, 9 March 2008 (UTC)action
		+
		+	== pet carrying capacity ==
		+	A pet's carrying capacity is both a limiting factor and hard to guess in my experience. Obviously, a little dog won't steal a plate mail, but just how much can you put into that bag of holding? I don't know where to look, could someone else please provide some numbers?
		+	[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 20:22, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:07, 9 March 2008
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	I disagree. Credit cloning in a deli takes forever because the items for sale there are so cheap. The best shop to rob has a few expensive items, otherwise you have to pick up and drop everything a gazillion times.		I disagree. Credit cloning in a deli takes forever because the items for sale there are so cheap. The best shop to rob has a few expensive items, otherwise you have to pick up and drop everything a gazillion times.
		+	:Well, if you can get a stack of holy/unholy water that speeds things up. But still, I'm with you that there are much better stores to rob than delicatessens. Shops with expensive lightweight items like rings and wands are best. Will edit the strategy section to say as much. [[User:Action 52\|Action 52]] 23:07, 9 March 2008 (UTC)action

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:48, 21 November 2007
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	> Thus, the easiest shop to rob this way is delicatessen.		> Thus, the easiest shop to rob this way is delicatessen.

−	I disagree. Credit cloning in a deli takes forever because the items for sale there are so cheap. The best shop to rob has a few expensive items, otherwise you have to pick up and drop a gazillion times.	+	I disagree. Credit cloning in a deli takes forever because the items for sale there are so cheap. The best shop to rob has a few expensive items, otherwise you have to pick up and drop everything a gazillion times.

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:47, 21 November 2007
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	Would this be considered cheating? You are exploiting a shopkeeper's ignorance of your gold theft, giving you access to all of his gold. Exploitation could be defined as a form of cheating. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 04:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)		Would this be considered cheating? You are exploiting a shopkeeper's ignorance of your gold theft, giving you access to all of his gold. Exploitation could be defined as a form of cheating. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 04:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
	:Only as much as techniques such as Pet stealing is considered cheating. Pet stealing (have your pet steal items) is exploiting the shop keepers ignorance of your pet stealing things. I think its a player choice. [[User:Zaffle\|Zaffle]] 04:27, 5 August 2007 (UTC)		:Only as much as techniques such as Pet stealing is considered cheating. Pet stealing (have your pet steal items) is exploiting the shop keepers ignorance of your pet stealing things. I think its a player choice. [[User:Zaffle\|Zaffle]] 04:27, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
		+
		+	> Thus, the easiest shop to rob this way is delicatessen.
		+
		+	I disagree. Credit cloning in a deli takes forever because the items for sale there are so cheap. The best shop to rob has a few expensive items, otherwise you have to pick up and drop a gazillion times.

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:27, 5 August 2007
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	Would this be considered cheating? You are exploiting a shopkeeper's ignorance of your gold theft, giving you access to all of his gold. Exploitation could be defined as a form of cheating. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 04:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)		Would this be considered cheating? You are exploiting a shopkeeper's ignorance of your gold theft, giving you access to all of his gold. Exploitation could be defined as a form of cheating. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 04:17, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
		+	:Only as much as techniques such as Pet stealing is considered cheating. Pet stealing (have your pet steal items) is exploiting the shop keepers ignorance of your pet stealing things. I think its a player choice. [[User:Zaffle\|Zaffle]] 04:27, 5 August 2007 (UTC)