Talk:Elven broadsword - Revision history

Hal Novek: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers not relevant? */

2020-11-28T14:31:21Z

‎Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers *not* relevant?

Umbire the Phantom at 12:25, 28 November 2020

2020-11-28T12:25:43Z

Hal Novek at 09:43, 28 November 2020

2020-11-28T09:43:05Z

Hal Novek: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers not relevant? */

2020-11-28T09:39:56Z

‎Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers *not* relevant?

Umbire the Phantom at 04:42, 28 November 2020

2020-11-28T04:42:23Z

Qazmlpok: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers not relevant? */

2020-11-28T02:24:12Z

‎Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers *not* relevant?

Umbire the Phantom at 16:29, 27 November 2020

2020-11-27T16:29:28Z

Hal Novek: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers not relevant? */

2020-11-27T13:18:21Z

‎Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers *not* relevant?

Umbire the Phantom at 01:31, 27 November 2020

2020-11-27T01:31:36Z

Jimeikner at 15:33, 26 November 2020

2020-11-26T15:33:22Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:31, 28 November 2020
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	:...fire elementals aren't as late as you'd think but in any case it's more "don't assume the viewer is completely new" and taking it as granted that the player will take steps to properly guard/proof a weapon that they regularly use, plus putting such a tip on ever pages would be kinda nattery in practice anyway. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 12:25, 28 November 2020 (UTC)		:...fire elementals aren't as late as you'd think but in any case it's more "don't assume the viewer is completely new" and taking it as granted that the player will take steps to properly guard/proof a weapon that they regularly use, plus putting such a tip on ever pages would be kinda nattery in practice anyway. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 12:25, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
		+
		+	:: I think it could be useful to add a sentence to the section [[Erosion#Strategy]], that is more general. But I want to be sure first that there is no other way to burn wooden weapons (that you are carrying) than attacking (in both melee and ranged) with them a monster having a passive fire attack. [[User:Hal Novek\|Hal Novek]] ([[User talk:Hal Novek\|talk]]) 14:31, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:25, 28 November 2020
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	:::In addition, as the article previously implied before I trimmed it, you get plenty of elves, which means in all but the worst cases you have at least a couple of backups (though admittedly that may be a projection of my own pragmatism). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 04:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)		:::In addition, as the article previously implied before I trimmed it, you get plenty of elves, which means in all but the worst cases you have at least a couple of backups (though admittedly that may be a projection of my own pragmatism). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 04:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
	::: Thanks for the clarification to you too, Qazmlpok!<br/> Then, if I understand correctly, wooden weapons are not as good as fireproofed as I thought, but only passive fire attacks can actually damage them in melee (when wielded) or when thrown (and of course gelatinous cubes could also eat them when on the ground regardless of their fireproof status). And the only monsters with passive fire attacks are red molds (that only have a passive attack and do not move, so you just can ignore), fire vortex (mostly relevant for elven broadswords, as you usually fight them while engulfed), and fire elementals (very late in the game). I'm thinking about pyrolisks (whose fire gaze is not reflected if you are invisible), wands of fire, fire breaths, fire traps, etc...<br/> So it is just that in practice there is not much benefit in fireproof them, unless you have extra scrolls that you could not use for other things. Is it right or not? [[User:Hal Novek\|Hal Novek]] ([[User talk:Hal Novek\|talk]]) 09:39, 28 November 2020 (UTC)		::: Thanks for the clarification to you too, Qazmlpok!<br/> Then, if I understand correctly, wooden weapons are not as good as fireproofed as I thought, but only passive fire attacks can actually damage them in melee (when wielded) or when thrown (and of course gelatinous cubes could also eat them when on the ground regardless of their fireproof status). And the only monsters with passive fire attacks are red molds (that only have a passive attack and do not move, so you just can ignore), fire vortex (mostly relevant for elven broadswords, as you usually fight them while engulfed), and fire elementals (very late in the game). I'm thinking about pyrolisks (whose fire gaze is not reflected if you are invisible), wands of fire, fire breaths, fire traps, etc...<br/> So it is just that in practice there is not much benefit in fireproof them, unless you have extra scrolls that you could not use for other things. Is it right or not? [[User:Hal Novek\|Hal Novek]] ([[User talk:Hal Novek\|talk]]) 09:39, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
		+
		+	:...fire elementals aren't as late as you'd think but in any case it's more "don't assume the viewer is completely new" and taking it as granted that the player will take steps to properly guard/proof a weapon that they regularly use, plus putting such a tip on ever pages would be kinda nattery in practice anyway. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 12:25, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

@@ Line 38: / Line 38: @@
 ::I just did a test on 3.6.0 with both an elven broadsword and a (thrown) elven dagger against a fire elemental. Both suffered erosion. I'm pretty sure this has always been the behavior; I think it's just that most weapons aren't made of wood so you don't see this erosion very often. And if you are using wooden weapons by the time you encounter fire elementals, you've probably had a chance to erode proof it, or at least bless it combined with high luck. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok|talk]]) 02:24, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
 :::In addition, as the article previously implied before I trimmed it, you get plenty of elves, which means in all but the worst cases you have at least a couple of backups (though admittedly that may be a projection of my own pragmatism). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 04:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
-::: Thanks for the clarification to you too, Qazmlpok!<br/> Then, if I understand correctly, wooden weapons are not as good as fireproofed as I thought, but only passive fire attacks can actually damage them in melee (when wielded) or when thrown (and of course gelatinous cubes could also eat them when on the ground regardless of their fireproof status). And the only monsters with passive fire attacks are red molds (that only have a passive attack and do not move, so you just can ignore), fire vortex (mostly relevant for elven broadswords, as you usually fight them while engulfed), and fire elementals (very late in the game). I'm thinking about pyrolisks (whose fire glaze is not reflected if you are invisible), wands of fire, fire breaths, fire traps, etc...<br/> So it is just that in practice there is not much benefit in fireproof them, unless you have extra scrolls that you could not use for other things. Is it right or not? [[User:Hal Novek|Hal Novek]] ([[User talk:Hal Novek|talk]]) 09:39, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
+::: Thanks for the clarification to you too, Qazmlpok!<br/> Then, if I understand correctly, wooden weapons are not as good as fireproofed as I thought, but only passive fire attacks can actually damage them in melee (when wielded) or when thrown (and of course gelatinous cubes could also eat them when on the ground regardless of their fireproof status). And the only monsters with passive fire attacks are red molds (that only have a passive attack and do not move, so you just can ignore), fire vortex (mostly relevant for elven broadswords, as you usually fight them while engulfed), and fire elementals (very late in the game). I'm thinking about pyrolisks (whose fire gaze is not reflected if you are invisible), wands of fire, fire breaths, fire traps, etc...<br/> So it is just that in practice there is not much benefit in fireproof them, unless you have extra scrolls that you could not use for other things. Is it right or not? [[User:Hal Novek|Hal Novek]] ([[User talk:Hal Novek|talk]]) 09:39, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:39, 28 November 2020
Line 38:		Line 38:
	::I just did a test on 3.6.0 with both an elven broadsword and a (thrown) elven dagger against a fire elemental. Both suffered erosion. I'm pretty sure this has always been the behavior; I think it's just that most weapons aren't made of wood so you don't see this erosion very often. And if you are using wooden weapons by the time you encounter fire elementals, you've probably had a chance to erode proof it, or at least bless it combined with high luck. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok\|talk]]) 02:24, 28 November 2020 (UTC)		::I just did a test on 3.6.0 with both an elven broadsword and a (thrown) elven dagger against a fire elemental. Both suffered erosion. I'm pretty sure this has always been the behavior; I think it's just that most weapons aren't made of wood so you don't see this erosion very often. And if you are using wooden weapons by the time you encounter fire elementals, you've probably had a chance to erode proof it, or at least bless it combined with high luck. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok\|talk]]) 02:24, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
	:::In addition, as the article previously implied before I trimmed it, you get plenty of elves, which means in all but the worst cases you have at least a couple of backups (though admittedly that may be a projection of my own pragmatism). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 04:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)		:::In addition, as the article previously implied before I trimmed it, you get plenty of elves, which means in all but the worst cases you have at least a couple of backups (though admittedly that may be a projection of my own pragmatism). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 04:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
		+	::: Thanks for the clarification to you too, Qazmlpok!<br/> Then, if I understand correctly, wooden weapons are not as good as fireproofed as I thought, but only passive fire attacks can actually damage them in melee (when wielded) or when thrown (and of course gelatinous cubes could also eat them when on the ground regardless of their fireproof status). And the only monsters with passive fire attacks are red molds (that only have a passive attack and do not move, so you just can ignore), fire vortex (mostly relevant for elven broadswords, as you usually fight them while engulfed), and fire elementals (very late in the game). I'm thinking about pyrolisks (whose fire glaze is not reflected if you are invisible), wands of fire, fire breaths, fire traps, etc...<br/> So it is just that in practice there is not much benefit in fireproof them, unless you have extra scrolls that you could not use for other things. Is it right or not? [[User:Hal Novek\|Hal Novek]] ([[User talk:Hal Novek\|talk]]) 09:39, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:42, 28 November 2020
Line 37:		Line 37:
	:I'd meant to include thrown weapons as well as wielded ones, and the fact that corrosion/rust has applied to both when dealing with oozes and acidic jellies in both cases leads me to think it's the same for wooden weapons and projectiles against fire passives. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 16:29, 27 November 2020 (UTC)		:I'd meant to include thrown weapons as well as wielded ones, and the fact that corrosion/rust has applied to both when dealing with oozes and acidic jellies in both cases leads me to think it's the same for wooden weapons and projectiles against fire passives. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 16:29, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
	::I just did a test on 3.6.0 with both an elven broadsword and a (thrown) elven dagger against a fire elemental. Both suffered erosion. I'm pretty sure this has always been the behavior; I think it's just that most weapons aren't made of wood so you don't see this erosion very often. And if you are using wooden weapons by the time you encounter fire elementals, you've probably had a chance to erode proof it, or at least bless it combined with high luck. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok\|talk]]) 02:24, 28 November 2020 (UTC)		::I just did a test on 3.6.0 with both an elven broadsword and a (thrown) elven dagger against a fire elemental. Both suffered erosion. I'm pretty sure this has always been the behavior; I think it's just that most weapons aren't made of wood so you don't see this erosion very often. And if you are using wooden weapons by the time you encounter fire elementals, you've probably had a chance to erode proof it, or at least bless it combined with high luck. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok\|talk]]) 02:24, 28 November 2020 (UTC)
		+	:::In addition, as the article previously implied before I trimmed it, you get plenty of elves, which means in all but the worst cases you have at least a couple of backups (though admittedly that may be a projection of my own pragmatism). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 04:42, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:24, 28 November 2020
Line 36:		Line 36:

	:I'd meant to include thrown weapons as well as wielded ones, and the fact that corrosion/rust has applied to both when dealing with oozes and acidic jellies in both cases leads me to think it's the same for wooden weapons and projectiles against fire passives. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 16:29, 27 November 2020 (UTC)		:I'd meant to include thrown weapons as well as wielded ones, and the fact that corrosion/rust has applied to both when dealing with oozes and acidic jellies in both cases leads me to think it's the same for wooden weapons and projectiles against fire passives. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 16:29, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
		+	::I just did a test on 3.6.0 with both an elven broadsword and a (thrown) elven dagger against a fire elemental. Both suffered erosion. I'm pretty sure this has always been the behavior; I think it's just that most weapons aren't made of wood so you don't see this erosion very often. And if you are using wooden weapons by the time you encounter fire elementals, you've probably had a chance to erode proof it, or at least bless it combined with high luck. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] ([[User talk:Qazmlpok\|talk]]) 02:24, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

@@ Line 30: / Line 30: @@
 --[[User:Jimeikner|Jimeikner]] ([[User talk:Jimeikner|talk]]) 15:33, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
-:Yeah no, your inventory and wielded weapon can totally be subjected to burning while attacking a monster with a passive fire attack, and I believe that's been the case for several versions. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 01:31, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
+:Yeah no, your inventory and wielded weapon (EDIT: including thrown ones) can totally be subjected to burning while attacking a monster with a passive fire attack, and I believe that's been the case for several versions. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 01:31, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
 :: Ok, thanks for the clarification. Maybe then it was only the case with thrown weapons (and while in your inventory), or something has changed since 3.6.3 and later versions. I'll have to check.
 :: [[User:Hal Novek|Hal Novek]] ([[User talk:Hal Novek|talk]]) 13:18, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:18, 27 November 2020
Line 31:		Line 31:

	:Yeah no, your inventory and wielded weapon can totally be subjected to burning while attacking a monster with a passive fire attack, and I believe that's been the case for several versions. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 01:31, 27 November 2020 (UTC)		:Yeah no, your inventory and wielded weapon can totally be subjected to burning while attacking a monster with a passive fire attack, and I believe that's been the case for several versions. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 01:31, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
		+
		+	:: Ok, thanks for the clarification. Maybe then it was only the case with thrown weapons (and while in your inventory), or something has changed since 3.6.3 and later versions. I'll have to check.
		+	:: [[User:Hal Novek\|Hal Novek]] ([[User talk:Hal Novek\|talk]]) 13:18, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

@@ Line 25: / Line 25: @@
 [[User:Hal Novek|Hal Novek]] ([[User talk:Hal Novek|talk]]) 12:00, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 This may be new behavior (I play 3.7-dev on hardfought). I have definitely burned wooden weapons in melee against monsters with a passive fire attack (red mold and fire elemental in my experience). Uncertain about ranged attacks...
 --[[User:Jimeikner|Jimeikner]] ([[User talk:Jimeikner|talk]]) 15:33, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:33, 26 November 2020
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	[[User:Hal Novek\|Hal Novek]] ([[User talk:Hal Novek\|talk]]) 12:00, 26 November 2020 (UTC)		[[User:Hal Novek\|Hal Novek]] ([[User talk:Hal Novek\|talk]]) 12:00, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
		+
		+
		+	This may be new behavior (I play 3.7-dev on hardfought). I have definitely burned wooden weapons in melee against monsters with a passive fire attack (red mold and fire elemental in my experience). Uncertain about ranged attacks...
		+
		+	--[[User:Jimeikner\|Jimeikner]] ([[User talk:Jimeikner\|talk]]) 15:33, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Talk:Elven broadsword - Revision history

Hal Novek: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers *not* relevant? */

Umbire the Phantom at 12:25, 28 November 2020

Hal Novek at 09:43, 28 November 2020

Hal Novek: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers *not* relevant? */

Umbire the Phantom at 04:42, 28 November 2020

Qazmlpok: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers *not* relevant? */

Umbire the Phantom at 16:29, 27 November 2020

Hal Novek: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers *not* relevant? */

Umbire the Phantom at 01:31, 27 November 2020

Jimeikner at 15:33, 26 November 2020

Hal Novek: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers not relevant? */

Hal Novek: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers not relevant? */

Qazmlpok: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers not relevant? */

Hal Novek: /* Fire damage (burn/erosion) to elven broadsword/daggers not relevant? */