Talk:Genocide - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom: tocright for style

2026-05-18T06:25:47Z

tocright for style

Umbire the Phantom: bunch of unsigned comments

2026-05-18T06:25:30Z

bunch of unsigned comments

Bluescreenofdeath: /* "respecting" genocide */

2020-02-04T16:12:55Z

‎"respecting" genocide

Fyr: /* "respecting" genocide */ new section

2020-02-04T16:11:42Z

‎"respecting" genocide: new section

Bcode: /* Liches and Athames */ no, they can't steal the Book of the Dead (as I explained above)

2013-12-09T08:59:15Z

‎Liches and Athames: no, they can't steal the Book of the Dead (as I explained above)

Cockatrice corpse: /* Liches and Athames */

2013-12-09T08:23:28Z

‎Liches and Athames

Bcode: /* Liches and Athames */ L can't steal anything

2013-12-08T19:14:35Z

‎Liches and Athames: L can't steal anything

Cockatrice corpse: why you should genocide all L

2013-12-04T07:03:20Z

why you should genocide all L

Bcode: /* Mind Flayers for Intelligence */ Genociding them doesn't really increase difficulty.

2013-04-06T00:45:01Z

‎Mind Flayers for Intelligence: Genociding them doesn't really increase difficulty.

79.210.38.56: /* Mind Flayers for Intelligence */ new section

2013-04-05T17:29:23Z

‎Mind Flayers for Intelligence: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:25, 18 May 2026
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		+	{{tocright}}
	== item drops? ==		== item drops? ==
	the page doesn't say what happens to items that a monster may be carrying if they are genocided. if a nymph steals my +7 stormbringer, will she drop it on the ground? what are the steps that the game goes through when removing the genocided creatures, and when? --[[Special:Contributions/195.157.154.29\|195.157.154.29]] 12:52, 21 November 2012 (UTC)		the page doesn't say what happens to items that a monster may be carrying if they are genocided. if a nymph steals my +7 stormbringer, will she drop it on the ground? what are the steps that the game goes through when removing the genocided creatures, and when? --[[Special:Contributions/195.157.154.29\|195.157.154.29]] 12:52, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

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 Can you reverse genocide extinct monsters? --[[User:TBF01|TBF01]] 23:25, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
-Not according to [[Scroll_of_genocide]]
+Not according to [[Scroll_of_genocide]] {{unsigned|Riley37|2007-08-26T04:19:09}}
 == Checking what you genocided? ==
-Is there any way to check to see what you've genocided without dying?  (I've played a bit too much Nethack in the past few weeks and can't keep track of what the current character did versus the character who died yesterday, etc...)
+Is there any way to check to see what you've genocided without dying?  (I've played a bit too much Nethack in the past few weeks and can't keep track of what the current character did versus the character who died yesterday, etc...) {{unsigned|Enehta|2007-12-09T23:44:11}}
 == Strategy ==
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 (just deal with them with a ranged attack, eg use a spell of magic missile if you can).
 Then genocide them will clear nearly completely the plane of water instantly! If you had genocided them before,
-then they would be replaced with other difficult monsters). Has anyone tried that apart from me ?
+then they would be replaced with other difficult monsters). Has anyone tried that apart from me ? {{unsigned|86.69.20.201|2009-08-16T17:06:08}}
 : Personally, I don't genocide sea monsters at all because they are quite easy to avoid (perhaps except on the plain of Water), and in the mid-game, I value cursed genocides more, and I tend to overprepare for Astral anyway. On the planes, I just teleport them if they grab me, and use normal methods if not (evade, fight, tame, conflict,...). However, if you really want to avoid encounters at all cost, genociding them late is the common sense approach. It might work to storm through the Plane of Water and genocide them only once they pose an actual threat. -[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 21:58, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
@@ Line 37: / Line 37: @@
 ==Gelatinous cube==
-Is it really worth it to reverse genocide them as a monk... you should have all the interesting intrisincs by the time you got a magic marker, a permanent elbereth method/free action.
+Is it really worth it to reverse genocide them as a monk... you should have all the interesting intrisincs by the time you got a magic marker, a permanent elbereth method/free action. {{unsigned|Newtkiller|2009-10-01T08:20:53}}
 :According to the shock resistance page, gelatinous cubes are the only vegan corpses to give shock resistance, and brown puddings are the only other vegetarian corpse (black pudding are not vegetarian). Shock resistance is also the last resistance granted for monks by leveling up, and the exponential XP requirements mean the character would need to go a decent amount of time before hitting level 15 - not to mention other roles going vegetarian for the conduct. A gelatinous cube is also the only source of sleep resistance besides divine favor, and I would personally not be required to wear a ring of free action all the time to avoid wands of sleep. The other resistances are also certainly helpful for an early character that chances upon a scroll. I'd say it's definitely worth it, although maybe the page should say vegetarian players and not just monks, as non-monk vegetarians would actually benefit more. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 21:49, October 1, 2009 (UTC)
@@ Line 54: / Line 54: @@
 == Genociding Mimics Doesn't Increase Orcus Town Items ==
-Instead, you get a bunch of empty spots where the mimics would have been. I didn't change the article itself because I haven't verified this with the actual code, but I did genocide them before entering Gehennom and found the shops half empty.
+Instead, you get a bunch of empty spots where the mimics would have been. I didn't change the article itself because I haven't verified this with the actual code, but I did genocide them before entering Gehennom and found the shops half empty. {{unsigned|71.132.207.40|2010-02-21T02:23:17}}
 :I just tried it in wizard mode and found it did increase the number of items.  It's quite possible you had visited it but hadn't realized it; the maze outside of Orcus Town looks just like the rest of Gehennom.  Also, monsters may have picked up some of the items - the skeletons in Orcus Town seem to be fond of doing that.  And there is a very, very slim chance it was a bones level, unlikely but possible.  If you ask me though, I think about 10 or so extra items is hardly worth a blessed scroll of genocide anyway, especially since by that point in the game you probably have your ascension kit together or mostly so anyway. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 10:50, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:12, 4 February 2020
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	Do exactly the same things that respect extinction, also respect genocide? Or is genocide even stronger? For example, if a Quest "themed" monster (e.g. vampire bats in the Wizard quest) is extinct, it still shows up on the Quest levels; will that also happen even if it is genocided? [[User:Fyr\|Fyr]] ([[User talk:Fyr\|talk]]) 16:11, 4 February 2020 (UTC)		Do exactly the same things that respect extinction, also respect genocide? Or is genocide even stronger? For example, if a Quest "themed" monster (e.g. vampire bats in the Wizard quest) is extinct, it still shows up on the Quest levels; will that also happen even if it is genocided? [[User:Fyr\|Fyr]] ([[User talk:Fyr\|talk]]) 16:11, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
		+	:I'm pretty sure genocided monsters cannot ever be made to exist in vanilla, unless you use wizard mode. --[[User:Bluescreenofdeath\|Bluescreenofdeath]] ([[User talk:Bluescreenofdeath\|talk]]) 16:12, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:11, 4 February 2020
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	:There are other ways to raise your intelligence, though; [[helm of brilliance\|helms of brilliance]] and blessed [[potion of gain ability\|potions of gain ability]] will work.		:There are other ways to raise your intelligence, though; [[helm of brilliance\|helms of brilliance]] and blessed [[potion of gain ability\|potions of gain ability]] will work.
	:As for the "A good strategy..." part of what you wrote, using at least a semi-permanent fast Elbereth is all you need against mind flayers, yes. You can even reverse-genocide them at experience level one if you want to as long as you stay on a working Elbereth (and survive the mental blasts if applicable, though these are secondary). The danger is when they are summoned right next to you when you can't use Elbereth at all (over water, for example). —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 00:45, 6 April 2013 (UTC)		:As for the "A good strategy..." part of what you wrote, using at least a semi-permanent fast Elbereth is all you need against mind flayers, yes. You can even reverse-genocide them at experience level one if you want to as long as you stay on a working Elbereth (and survive the mental blasts if applicable, though these are secondary). The danger is when they are summoned right next to you when you can't use Elbereth at all (over water, for example). —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 00:45, 6 April 2013 (UTC)
		+
		+	== "respecting" genocide ==
		+
		+	Do exactly the same things that respect extinction, also respect genocide? Or is genocide even stronger? For example, if a Quest "themed" monster (e.g. vampire bats in the Wizard quest) is extinct, it still shows up on the Quest levels; will that also happen even if it is genocided? [[User:Fyr\|Fyr]] ([[User talk:Fyr\|talk]]) 16:11, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:59, 9 December 2013
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	It is true that liches lack a stealing attack, so you do not have worry about your pair of speed boots becoming stolen (do worry about them getting cursed). If look up the lich page in the wiki , you see that master and arch-liches want the book of dead, therefore whey are Covetous and can still steal the book of dead——[[User:Cockatrice corpse\|Cockatrice corpse]] ([[User talk:Cockatrice corpse\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 December 2013 (UTC)		It is true that liches lack a stealing attack, so you do not have worry about your pair of speed boots becoming stolen (do worry about them getting cursed). If look up the lich page in the wiki , you see that master and arch-liches want the book of dead, therefore whey are Covetous and can still steal the book of dead——[[User:Cockatrice corpse\|Cockatrice corpse]] ([[User talk:Cockatrice corpse\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
		+
		+	:Incorrect. They are covetous, but that doesn't mean they can steal the Book of the Dead. They'd need an <tt>AD_SAMU</tt> attack for that, and only the Wizard and quest nemeses have that attack (and the Master of Thieves even if you're a rogue as he's also the Tou nemesis). See {{sourcecode\|mhitu.c\|1329}}. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 08:59, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

	==Gypsies==		==Gypsies==

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:23, 9 December 2013
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	:Master and arch-liches cannot steal the book of the dead as they don't have an <tt>SAMU</tt> attack, FWIW. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 19:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)		:Master and arch-liches cannot steal the book of the dead as they don't have an <tt>SAMU</tt> attack, FWIW. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 19:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
		+
		+	It is true that liches lack a stealing attack, so you do not have worry about your pair of speed boots becoming stolen (do worry about them getting cursed). If look up the lich page in the wiki , you see that master and arch-liches want the book of dead, therefore whey are Covetous and can still steal the book of dead——[[User:Cockatrice corpse\|Cockatrice corpse]] ([[User talk:Cockatrice corpse\|talk]]) 08:23, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

	==Gypsies==		==Gypsies==

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:14, 8 December 2013
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	Many people consider liches too much trouble for the athames they can provide and for good reason too. They can curse your items, surround you with more monsters and master and arch-liches can steal the book of dead and force you to chase the pesky lich up to floor 1. The wizard of yendor can do this too, but the death magic can kill him in a instant while liches are undead, therefore invulnerable to death magic.——[[User:Cockatrice corpse\|Cockatrice corpse]] ([[User talk:Cockatrice corpse\|talk]]) 07:03, 4 December 2013 (UTC)		Many people consider liches too much trouble for the athames they can provide and for good reason too. They can curse your items, surround you with more monsters and master and arch-liches can steal the book of dead and force you to chase the pesky lich up to floor 1. The wizard of yendor can do this too, but the death magic can kill him in a instant while liches are undead, therefore invulnerable to death magic.——[[User:Cockatrice corpse\|Cockatrice corpse]] ([[User talk:Cockatrice corpse\|talk]]) 07:03, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
		+
		+	:Master and arch-liches cannot steal the book of the dead as they don't have an <tt>SAMU</tt> attack, FWIW. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 19:14, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

	==Gypsies==		==Gypsies==

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:03, 4 December 2013
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	:::Original post was from me, BTW -- sorry for not signing. -- [[User:Slandor\|Slandor]] 23:33, June 30, 2010 (UTC)		:::Original post was from me, BTW -- sorry for not signing. -- [[User:Slandor\|Slandor]] 23:33, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
		+
		+	Many people consider liches too much trouble for the athames they can provide and for good reason too. They can curse your items, surround you with more monsters and master and arch-liches can steal the book of dead and force you to chase the pesky lich up to floor 1. The wizard of yendor can do this too, but the death magic can kill him in a instant while liches are undead, therefore invulnerable to death magic.——[[User:Cockatrice corpse\|Cockatrice corpse]] ([[User talk:Cockatrice corpse\|talk]]) 07:03, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

	==Gypsies==		==Gypsies==

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:45, 6 April 2013
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	Genociding Mindflayers has another big drawback. They are one of the few sources for extra intelligence. If a Barabrian or Caveman genocides them early in the game, he will probably never be able to cast any spell at all. It may be possible to ascent that way, but it is usually easier to boost your intelligence to 18, and hoard unused spellbooks in you stash, so you can learn them before the endgame. The most usefull spells for a Fighter class is probably Identify, this can be done by eating some Mindflayers in gehennom, then if you have enough intellignece, take all your spellbooks return to Dungeon level 1. read them until you find Identify, then take off your armour, and try to cast it until you succed. An occasional Force Bolt may also be possible, and the Plane of Earth will be easier, if you can use Rodneys Digging Spell. The Ability to identify your stuff, makes the risk of Amnesia tolerable, and a careful player may be able to boost his intelligence to 18 without a single brain drain. A good strategy is to carry always a Wand of Digging while in a Maze (Minotaurs have them) And engrave 2 semipermanent Elbereths when a Mindflayer apears on the Level. Than, lure him to the Elbereth Square (and throw some Daggers or Spears at him (he will throw them back, but with a good AC they will hurt him more than you)) than take a good Melee Weapon (Battleaxe, Cleaver, Vorpal blade,...) and hit him everytime he stands next to you (ON THE ELBERETH SQUARE !!!) - [[Special:Contributions/79.210.38.56\|79.210.38.56]] 17:29, 5 April 2013 (UTC)		Genociding Mindflayers has another big drawback. They are one of the few sources for extra intelligence. If a Barabrian or Caveman genocides them early in the game, he will probably never be able to cast any spell at all. It may be possible to ascent that way, but it is usually easier to boost your intelligence to 18, and hoard unused spellbooks in you stash, so you can learn them before the endgame. The most usefull spells for a Fighter class is probably Identify, this can be done by eating some Mindflayers in gehennom, then if you have enough intellignece, take all your spellbooks return to Dungeon level 1. read them until you find Identify, then take off your armour, and try to cast it until you succed. An occasional Force Bolt may also be possible, and the Plane of Earth will be easier, if you can use Rodneys Digging Spell. The Ability to identify your stuff, makes the risk of Amnesia tolerable, and a careful player may be able to boost his intelligence to 18 without a single brain drain. A good strategy is to carry always a Wand of Digging while in a Maze (Minotaurs have them) And engrave 2 semipermanent Elbereths when a Mindflayer apears on the Level. Than, lure him to the Elbereth Square (and throw some Daggers or Spears at him (he will throw them back, but with a good AC they will hurt him more than you)) than take a good Melee Weapon (Battleaxe, Cleaver, Vorpal blade,...) and hit him everytime he stands next to you (ON THE ELBERETH SQUARE !!!) - [[Special:Contributions/79.210.38.56\|79.210.38.56]] 17:29, 5 April 2013 (UTC)
		+
		+	:A barbarian or caveperson will probably never be able to cast any useful spell at all anyway. :)
		+	:Seriously, by the point you can learn it as one of the fighter roles, you don't really need identify anymore, I think. AFAIK dig is a spell you're unlikely to be able to cast even as caveperson who has it as their special spell; it may be possible, but wands of digging will probably be faster IIRC.
		+	:There are other ways to raise your intelligence, though; [[helm of brilliance\|helms of brilliance]] and blessed [[potion of gain ability\|potions of gain ability]] will work.
		+	:As for the "A good strategy..." part of what you wrote, using at least a semi-permanent fast Elbereth is all you need against mind flayers, yes. You can even reverse-genocide them at experience level one if you want to as long as you stay on a working Elbereth (and survive the mental blasts if applicable, though these are secondary). The danger is when they are summoned right next to you when you can't use Elbereth at all (over water, for example). —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 00:45, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:29, 5 April 2013
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	:You cannot genocide just (master) mind flayers with a blessed scroll; you need an uncursed scroll (or a [[throne]]) for that.		:You cannot genocide just (master) mind flayers with a blessed scroll; you need an uncursed scroll (or a [[throne]]) for that.
	:However, the page might indeed need a little note on input; perhaps I'll add that later today. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 00:15, 5 December 2012 (UTC)		:However, the page might indeed need a little note on input; perhaps I'll add that later today. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 00:15, 5 December 2012 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Mind Flayers for Intelligence ==
		+
		+	Genociding Mindflayers has another big drawback. They are one of the few sources for extra intelligence. If a Barabrian or Caveman genocides them early in the game, he will probably never be able to cast any spell at all. It may be possible to ascent that way, but it is usually easier to boost your intelligence to 18, and hoard unused spellbooks in you stash, so you can learn them before the endgame. The most usefull spells for a Fighter class is probably Identify, this can be done by eating some Mindflayers in gehennom, then if you have enough intellignece, take all your spellbooks return to Dungeon level 1. read them until you find Identify, then take off your armour, and try to cast it until you succed. An occasional Force Bolt may also be possible, and the Plane of Earth will be easier, if you can use Rodneys Digging Spell. The Ability to identify your stuff, makes the risk of Amnesia tolerable, and a careful player may be able to boost his intelligence to 18 without a single brain drain. A good strategy is to carry always a Wand of Digging while in a Maze (Minotaurs have them) And engrave 2 semipermanent Elbereths when a Mindflayer apears on the Level. Than, lure him to the Elbereth Square (and throw some Daggers or Spears at him (he will throw them back, but with a good AC they will hurt him more than you)) than take a good Melee Weapon (Battleaxe, Cleaver, Vorpal blade,...) and hit him everytime he stands next to you (ON THE ELBERETH SQUARE !!!) - [[Special:Contributions/79.210.38.56\|79.210.38.56]] 17:29, 5 April 2013 (UTC)