Talk:Rogue - Revision history

Furey: SLASH'EM -> Source:SLASH'EM

2024-06-29T14:56:17Z

SLASH'EM -> Source:SLASH'EM

Cherokee Jack: Putting cut 'Weapon options' section here; feel free to re-insert if you find a better place for it

2017-04-01T20:30:27Z

Putting cut 'Weapon options' section here; feel free to re-insert if you find a better place for it

Ephialtis: /* Shot limitation prefix */ new section

2014-01-13T23:14:52Z

‎Shot limitation prefix: new section

Ion frigate at 08:47, 7 May 2011

2011-05-07T08:47:10Z

Qazmlpok: /* SLASH'EM shopping */

2011-05-06T12:04:58Z

‎SLASH'EM shopping

AileTheAlien: /* SLASH'EM shopping */ new section

2011-05-06T05:43:18Z

‎SLASH'EM shopping: new section

AlphaPikachu578: /* Starting gold */

2010-06-30T23:37:22Z

‎Starting gold

Darth l33t: /* Starting gold */

2010-06-30T07:06:35Z

‎Starting gold

AlphaPikachu578 at 04:45, 30 June 2010

2010-06-30T04:45:23Z

Qazmlpok at 23:06, 8 October 2009

2009-10-08T23:06:53Z

@@ Line 39: / Line 39: @@
 Playing SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F3, noticing that costs in shops appear to be a lot more than most other characters I play. I have 8 CHA, but the costs seem to be even further out of whack. Do rogues get bumped up a cost level in SLASH'EM? --[[User:AileTheAlien|AileTheAlien]] 05:43, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
 :Yes, they do. Triple markup, I believe. Barbarians and Samurai get similar (if not identical) treatment. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 12:04, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
-::Double, actually, and same with samurai.  Only barbarians get tripled prices.  The note in the source code ([[SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F2/shk.c#line2347]]) says that rogues are untrustworthy, samurai are from out of town, and barbarians are gullible.  Of course the real reason is game balance - rogues are majorly buffed in SLASH'EM (AC bonus from high dex, Bat from Hell), and samurai and barbarians are simply unweakened strong roles (unlike valkyries, whose long sword became a spear). -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 08:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
+::Double, actually, and same with samurai.  Only barbarians get tripled prices.  The note in the source code ([[Source:SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F2/shk.c#line2347]]) says that rogues are untrustworthy, samurai are from out of town, and barbarians are gullible.  Of course the real reason is game balance - rogues are majorly buffed in SLASH'EM (AC bonus from high dex, Bat from Hell), and samurai and barbarians are simply unweakened strong roles (unlike valkyries, whose long sword became a spear). -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 08:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
 == Shot limitation prefix ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:30, 1 April 2017
Line 44:		Line 44:

	The article mentions this -- but searching for it leads only to this page, and I can't find it described anywhere. If it ''is'' explained somewhere, could it be liked to? --[[User:Ephialtis\|Ephialtis]] ([[User talk:Ephialtis\|talk]]) 23:14, 13 January 2014 (UTC)		The article mentions this -- but searching for it leads only to this page, and I can't find it described anywhere. If it ''is'' explained somewhere, could it be liked to? --[[User:Ephialtis\|Ephialtis]] ([[User talk:Ephialtis\|talk]]) 23:14, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
		+
		+	:It's covered by the [[Numeric prefix]] article. I added an in-text link to it. --[[User:Cherokee Jack\|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack\|talk]]) 20:30, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Weapon options ==
		+	''When I edited this page, I cut this section because it took up a lot of space in the new outline. I'm putting the content here for reference.'' --[[User:Cherokee Jack\|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack\|talk]]) 20:30, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
		+
		+	Rogues are good twoweaponers but better missile users. Thrown weapons will often make sense at all ranges. Note that twoweaponing removes backstab damage, so it's not always the best choice.
		+
		+	Damage of selected weapons versus small targets with only skill +damage. Daggers thrown except as noted.
		+	{\| class="prettytable striped"
		+	!\| weapon
		+	!\| skill(s)
		+	!\| base
		+	!\| per hit
		+	!\| #attacks (avg)
		+	!\| total damage
		+	!\| notes
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Crossbow \|\| E\|\|2.5\|\|8.0\|\|1-3(2)\|\|16\|\| +d6 poison
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dart \|\| E\|\|2.0\|\|7.5 \|\|1-3(2)\|\|15.0 \|\| +d6 poison
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| ElvenDagger \|\| E\|\|3.0\|\|5.0\|\|1-4(2.5)\|\|12.5\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| ElvenShort+ElvenBroad \|\| E/E\|\|4.5/6.0\|\|5.5/7.0(t)\|\|2\|\|12.5\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| OrcishDagger \|\| E\|\|2.0\|\|4.0\|\|1-4(2.5)\|\|10.0\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dagger \|\| E\|\|2.5\|\|4.5\|\|1-4(2.5)\|\|11.25\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| ElvenDagger+ElvenBroad \|\| E/E\|\|3.0/6.0\|\|4.0/7.0(t)\|\|2\|\|11\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| ElvenShortx2 \|\| E/E\|\|4.5\|\|5.5(t)\|\|2\|\|11.0\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Katana x2 \|\| S/S\|\|5.5\|\|5.5(t)\|\|2\|\|11.0\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Crossbow \|\| S\|\|2.5\|\|7.0\|\|1-2(1.5)\|\|10.5\|\| +d6 poison
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| DwarfShortx2 \|\| E/E\|\|4.0\|\|5.0(t)\|\|2\|\|10.0\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dart \|\| S\|\|2.0\|\|6.5 \|\|1-2(1.5)\|\|9.75 \|\| +d6 poison
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| ElvenDagger+LongSword \|\| E/E\|\|3.0/4.5\|\|4.0/5.5(t)\|\|2\|\|9.5\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| LongSword x2 \|\| S/S\|\|4.5\|\|4.5(t)\|\|2\|\|9.0\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dagger \|\| S\|\|2.5\|\|3.5\|\|1-3(2)\|\|7.0\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Crossbow \|\| B\|\|2.5\|\|6.0\|\|1\|\|6.0\|\| +d6 poison
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Broadsword \|\| S\|\|5.0\|\|6.0\|\|1\|\|6.0\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dart \|\| B\|\|2.0\|\|5.5\|\|1\|\|5.5\|\| +d6 poison
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Longsword \|\| S\|\|4.5\|\|5.5\|\|1\|\|5.5\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Halberd \|\| B\|\|5.5\|\|5.5\|\|1\|\|5.5 \|\|two handed, ranged
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Spetum \|\| B\|\|4.5\|\|4.5\|\|1\|\|4.5 \|\|two handed,ranged
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dagger(wielded) \|\| E\|\|2.5\|\|4.5\|\|1\|\|4.5\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dagger \|\| B\|\|2.5\|\|2.5\|\|1-2(1.5)\|\|3.75\|\|
		+	\|}
		+
		+	Damage versus small targets with +3 damage from strength and
		+	a +3 damage from enchantment.
		+	{\| class="prettytable striped"
		+	!\| weapon
		+	!\| skill
		+	!\| base
		+	!\| per hit
		+	!\| #attacks (avg)
		+	!\| total damage
		+	!\| notes
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| ElvenDagger \|\| E\|\|3.0\|\|11.0\|\|1-4(2.5)\|\|27.5\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dart \|\| E\|\|2.0\|\| 13.5 \|\|1-3(2)\|\|27.0 \|\| +d6 poison
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dagger \|\| E\|\|2.5\|\|10.5\|\|1-4(2.5)\|\|26.25\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| OrcishDagger \|\| E\|\|2.0\|\|10.0\|\|1-4(2.5)\|\|25.0\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| ElvenShort+ElvenBroad \|\| E/E\|\|4.5+6.0\|\|11.5+13(t)\|\|2\|\|24.5\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| ElvenBroadx2 \|\| S/S\|\|6.0\|\|12.0(t)\|\|2\|\|24.0\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| ElvenDagger+ElvenBroad \|\| E/E\|\|3.0+6.0\|\|10.0+13(t)\|\|2\|\|23.0\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Katana x2 \|\| S/S\|\|5.5\|\|11.5(t)\|\|2\|\|23.0\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Crossbow \|\| E\|\|2.5\|\|11.0\|\|1-3(2)\|\|22.0\|\| +d6 poison, no strength bonus
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| LongSword x2 \|\| S/S\|\|4.5\|\|10.5(t)\|\|2\|\|21.0\|\|two handed
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dagger \|\| S\|\|2.5\|\|9.5\|\|1-3(2)\|\|19.0\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Broadsword \|\| S\|\|5.0\|\|12.0\|\|1\|\|12.0\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Longsword \|\| S\|\|4.5\|\|11.5\|\|1\|\|11.5\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Halberd \|\| B\|\|5.5\|\|11.5\|\|1\|\|11.5 \|\|two handed, ranged
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Spetum \|\| B\|\|4.5\|\|10.5\|\|1\|\|10.5 \|\|two handed,ranged
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dagger(wielded) \|\| E\|\|2.5\|\|10.5\|\|1\|\|10.5\|\|
		+	\|}
		+
		+
		+	Damage vs. demons in the late game, blessed +7 weapons, XL30, 18/**-25 strength, with backstab for non-twoweapons:
		+	(assumes demon is large, fire resistant, drain resistant, poison resistant, hates silver, and is fleeing):
		+	As you can see, due to the double backstab damage, Grayswandir by itself beats Grayswandir and a silver saber twoweaponed--against a non-silver-hating monster, where the silver damage doesn't help, the effect would be even more dramatic.
		+
		+	{\| class="prettytable striped"
		+	!\| weapon
		+	!\| skill
		+	!\| base average
		+	!\| per hit
		+	!\| #attacks (avg)
		+	!\| total damage
		+	!\| notes
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| SilverDagger \|\| E\|\|2.0\|\|45.5\|\|1-4(2.5)\|\|113.75\|\| silver
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| ElvenDagger \|\| E\|\|2.0\|\|35.0 \|\|1-4(2.5)\|\|87.5\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dagger \|\| E\|\|2.0\|\|35.0 \|\|1-4(2.5)\|\|87.5\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| OrcishDagger \|\| E\|\|2.0\|\|35.0 \|\|1-4(2.5)\|\|87.5\|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Grayswandir \|\| S\|\|4.5\|\|74.0\|\|1\|\|74.0 \|\| silver
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Grayswandir+Saber \|\|S\|\|4.5+4.5\|\|42.0+30.5\|\|2\|\|72.5\|\| silver
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Dart \|\| E\|\|1.5\|\|34.5 \|\|1-3(2)\|\|69.0 \|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| SilverDaggerx2(wielded) \|\| S\|\|2.0+2.0\|\|28.0+28.0\|\|2\|\|56.0 \|\| silver
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Silver Saber \|\| S\|\|4.5\|\|47.0\|\|1\|\|47.0 \|\| silver
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| SilverDagger(wielded) \|\| E\|\|2.0\|\|45.5\|\|1\|\|45.5 \|\| silver
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Magicbane(wielded) \|\| E\|\|2.0\|\|38.8975\|\|1\|\|38.8975 \|\|
		+	\|-
		+	\|\| Barehanded w/ silver ring \|\| E\|\|1.5\|\|20.0 \|\|1\|\|20.0 \|\| silver
		+	\|}
		+
		+	--[[User:Cherokee Jack\|Cherokee Jack]] ([[User talk:Cherokee Jack\|talk]]) 20:30, 1 April 2017 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:14, 13 January 2014
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	:Yes, they do. Triple markup, I believe. Barbarians and Samurai get similar (if not identical) treatment. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 12:04, 6 May 2011 (UTC)		:Yes, they do. Triple markup, I believe. Barbarians and Samurai get similar (if not identical) treatment. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 12:04, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
	::Double, actually, and same with samurai. Only barbarians get tripled prices. The note in the source code ([[SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F2/shk.c#line2347]]) says that rogues are untrustworthy, samurai are from out of town, and barbarians are gullible. Of course the real reason is game balance - rogues are majorly buffed in SLASH'EM (AC bonus from high dex, Bat from Hell), and samurai and barbarians are simply unweakened strong roles (unlike valkyries, whose long sword became a spear). -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 08:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)		::Double, actually, and same with samurai. Only barbarians get tripled prices. The note in the source code ([[SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F2/shk.c#line2347]]) says that rogues are untrustworthy, samurai are from out of town, and barbarians are gullible. Of course the real reason is game balance - rogues are majorly buffed in SLASH'EM (AC bonus from high dex, Bat from Hell), and samurai and barbarians are simply unweakened strong roles (unlike valkyries, whose long sword became a spear). -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 08:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Shot limitation prefix ==
		+
		+	The article mentions this -- but searching for it leads only to this page, and I can't find it described anywhere. If it ''is'' explained somewhere, could it be liked to? --[[User:Ephialtis\|Ephialtis]] ([[User talk:Ephialtis\|talk]]) 23:14, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 08:47, 7 May 2011
Line 39:		Line 39:
	Playing SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F3, noticing that costs in shops appear to be a lot more than most other characters I play. I have 8 CHA, but the costs seem to be even further out of whack. Do rogues get bumped up a cost level in SLASH'EM? --[[User:AileTheAlien\|AileTheAlien]] 05:43, 6 May 2011 (UTC)		Playing SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F3, noticing that costs in shops appear to be a lot more than most other characters I play. I have 8 CHA, but the costs seem to be even further out of whack. Do rogues get bumped up a cost level in SLASH'EM? --[[User:AileTheAlien\|AileTheAlien]] 05:43, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
	:Yes, they do. Triple markup, I believe. Barbarians and Samurai get similar (if not identical) treatment. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 12:04, 6 May 2011 (UTC)		:Yes, they do. Triple markup, I believe. Barbarians and Samurai get similar (if not identical) treatment. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 12:04, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
		+	::Double, actually, and same with samurai. Only barbarians get tripled prices. The note in the source code ([[SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F2/shk.c#line2347]]) says that rogues are untrustworthy, samurai are from out of town, and barbarians are gullible. Of course the real reason is game balance - rogues are majorly buffed in SLASH'EM (AC bonus from high dex, Bat from Hell), and samurai and barbarians are simply unweakened strong roles (unlike valkyries, whose long sword became a spear). -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 08:47, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:04, 6 May 2011
Line 38:		Line 38:

	Playing SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F3, noticing that costs in shops appear to be a lot more than most other characters I play. I have 8 CHA, but the costs seem to be even further out of whack. Do rogues get bumped up a cost level in SLASH'EM? --[[User:AileTheAlien\|AileTheAlien]] 05:43, 6 May 2011 (UTC)		Playing SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F3, noticing that costs in shops appear to be a lot more than most other characters I play. I have 8 CHA, but the costs seem to be even further out of whack. Do rogues get bumped up a cost level in SLASH'EM? --[[User:AileTheAlien\|AileTheAlien]] 05:43, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
		+	:Yes, they do. Triple markup, I believe. Barbarians and Samurai get similar (if not identical) treatment. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 12:04, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:43, 6 May 2011
Line 34:		Line 34:
	:Rogues don't start with any gold in vanilla. Are you playing a variant? --[[User:Darth l33t\|Darth l33t]] 07:06, June 30, 2010 (UTC)		:Rogues don't start with any gold in vanilla. Are you playing a variant? --[[User:Darth l33t\|Darth l33t]] 07:06, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
	::Indeed I am, sorry about that. -[[User:AlphaPikachu578\|AlphaPikachu578]] 23:37, June 30, 2010 (UTC)		::Indeed I am, sorry about that. -[[User:AlphaPikachu578\|AlphaPikachu578]] 23:37, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
		+
		+	== SLASH'EM shopping ==
		+
		+	Playing SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F3, noticing that costs in shops appear to be a lot more than most other characters I play. I have 8 CHA, but the costs seem to be even further out of whack. Do rogues get bumped up a cost level in SLASH'EM? --[[User:AileTheAlien\|AileTheAlien]] 05:43, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 == Starting gold ==
 I noticed that the amount of gold a rogue starts with isn't listed here like it is on the [[Tourist]] page. From my experience, it appears to be 1000-2000, could anyone confirm this? -[[User:AlphaPikachu578|AlphaPikachu578]] 04:45, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
-:Rogues don't start with any gold in vanilla.  Are you playing a variant? --[[User:Darth l33t|Darth l33t]] 07:06, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
+:Rogues don't start with any gold in vanilla. Are you playing a variant? --[[User:Darth l33t|Darth l33t]] 07:06, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:06, 30 June 2010
Line 32:		Line 32:
	== Starting gold ==		== Starting gold ==
	I noticed that the amount of gold a rogue starts with isn't listed here like it is on the [[Tourist]] page. From my experience, it appears to be 1000-2000, could anyone confirm this? -[[User:AlphaPikachu578\|AlphaPikachu578]] 04:45, June 30, 2010 (UTC)		I noticed that the amount of gold a rogue starts with isn't listed here like it is on the [[Tourist]] page. From my experience, it appears to be 1000-2000, could anyone confirm this? -[[User:AlphaPikachu578\|AlphaPikachu578]] 04:45, June 30, 2010 (UTC)
		+	:Rogues don't start with any gold in vanilla. Are you playing a variant? --[[User:Darth l33t\|Darth l33t]] 07:06, June 30, 2010 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 i just started rogue and i got blessed '''short sword''' - so i guess there is that 5% chance for being blessed too... {{unsigned|147.229.178.176|9 February 2009}}
-I removed the strategy of waking the MA with a mind flayer blast.  The blast has a range of only seven, so no matter where you stand in the up-stairs room, he'll be out of reach.--[[User:Darth l33t|Darth l33t]] 01:52, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
+I removed the strategy of waking the MA with a mind flayer blast. The blast has a range of only seven, so no matter where you stand in the up-stairs room, he'll be out of reach.--[[User:Darth l33t|Darth l33t]] 01:52, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
 == Using a mind blast ==
@@ Line 29: / Line 29: @@
 All of the spots marked 'M' should be within range. Unless I'm miscounting, all are within a 7x7 square. The solitary M is where I did it in both wiz mode and in my one real game, so I know that one will work. All are within the block that has neither the assassin nor the upstairs, so you can dig a hole in the floor above and keep dropping down until you end up in either the assassin's block or the other block. I was fortunate enough to have a polymorph trap that I used to get a tame mind flayer and just got it as close to the marked position on the wiki's map as possible, and he suddenly attacked me. It certainly works. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:06, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:06, 8 October 2009
Line 2:		Line 2:

	I removed the strategy of waking the MA with a mind flayer blast. The blast has a range of only seven, so no matter where you stand in the up-stairs room, he'll be out of reach.--[[User:Darth l33t\|Darth l33t]] 01:52, September 25, 2009 (UTC)		I removed the strategy of waking the MA with a mind flayer blast. The blast has a range of only seven, so no matter where you stand in the up-stairs room, he'll be out of reach.--[[User:Darth l33t\|Darth l33t]] 01:52, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Using a mind blast ==
		+	I was able to alert the nemesis of my presence both in game and again in wizard mode. It is very possible.
		+
		+	----- -------.......................................-------------------
		+	\|...\| ----\|.....\|.......................................\|.................\|
		+	\|...\|---...\|.....\|.......................................\|....---------....\|
		+	\|.---......---..--.................................-----------\|.......\|....\|
		+	\|...............\|..................................\|..\|...\|...----........--
		+	\|.....-----....--.................................--..--..--.....----S----\|
		+	\|--S---...\|....\|.................................--........--....\|........\|
		+	\|.........---------..................^..........--....}}....--...\|...\|....\|
		+	\|....\|.....S......\|............................--.....}}.....--..--.------\|
		+	\|-----.....--.....\|...........................--...}}}}}}}}...--....\|.....--
		+	\|...........--....------S-----........x......--....}}}}}}}}....--..........\|
		+	\|............--........\|...\| \|..............--.....}}.}}........----------S\|
		+	\|.............\|........\|..%\| \|..............\|M.....}}}}}}}}......\|...\|.....\|
		+	\|S-.---.---.--\|.---.---\|...\| \|-----------...--........}}.}}.....-\|..---....\|
		+	\|.--\|.---.--\|.---.-S-..\|---\| \|.MMM\|.....\|....--....}}}}}}}}....--\|..S.---..\|
		+	\|...\|.......\|..........\|...---.MMM---...S.....\|-...}}}}}}}}...--.S..\|...\|..\|
		+	\|...\|..\|....\|..........\|.......MMMMM\|..-\|..------.....}}.....--..\|--\|...\|S-\|
		+	\|...\|---....\|---.......\|----- .MMMMM\|...\|--\| --....}}....--...\|..--.--..\|
		+	-----.....---.....--.---....--...--------..\| --........--....\|.........\|
		+	\|.............\|..........\|.............S... -S-------\|.....\|..-----..\|
		+	---------------------------------------- ...... ---------- ----
		+
		+	All of the spots marked 'M' should be within range. Unless I'm miscounting, all are within a 7x7 square. The solitary M is where I did it in both wiz mode and in my one real game, so I know that one will work. All are within the block that has neither the assassin nor the upstairs, so you can dig a hole in the floor above and keep dropping down until you end up in either the assassin's block or the other block. I was fortunate enough to have a polymorph trap that I used to get a tame mind flayer and just got it as close to the marked position on the wiki's map as possible, and he suddenly attacked me. It certainly works. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 23:06, October 8, 2009 (UTC)