Talk:Role - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom: /* Attributes table */ +1

2026-05-28T09:07:47Z

‎Attributes table: +1

Prowler at 12:15, 27 May 2026

2026-05-27T12:15:46Z

Prowler: /* Attributes table */

2026-05-26T23:44:41Z

‎Attributes table

Cathartes: /* Initial attribute simulation code */ see github for the code

2025-07-17T06:59:54Z

‎Initial attribute simulation code: see github for the code

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Cathartes: /* Attributes table */ new section

2022-05-06T05:54:16Z

‎Attributes table: new section

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Elronnd: /* slashem role table is flat wrong */

2015-04-10T05:41:25Z

‎slashem role table is flat wrong

Tjr: /* slashem role table is flat wrong */ new section

2011-08-19T07:23:11Z

‎slashem role table is flat wrong: new section

Grognor at 18:06, 8 June 2007

2007-06-08T18:06:47Z

Grognor at 18:06, 8 June 2007

2007-06-08T18:06:16Z

Grognor at 18:04, 8 June 2007

2007-06-08T18:04:35Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:07, 28 May 2026
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	upd: I've run the simulation program for 3.7 and all the results were within ±0.01 of mine. The idea was to get more precise values by sampling from the game itself because, according to folks in IRC, Knights were supposed to have higher Str values than simulated ones because of adjustment due to being encumbered from their starting inventory. Turned out it's not really the case, and after looking more closely at the numbers it would seem that for that to kick in, a Knight has to roll the lowest possible Str and Con and be generated with at least 35 apples and carrots in total at the same time, which basically never happens. Oh well, at least we now have ground truth to validate the simulated results. I've updated the page with simulated output over 10000000 samples. [[User:Prowler\|Prowler]] ([[User talk:Prowler\|talk]]) 12:15, 27 May 2026 (UTC)		upd: I've run the simulation program for 3.7 and all the results were within ±0.01 of mine. The idea was to get more precise values by sampling from the game itself because, according to folks in IRC, Knights were supposed to have higher Str values than simulated ones because of adjustment due to being encumbered from their starting inventory. Turned out it's not really the case, and after looking more closely at the numbers it would seem that for that to kick in, a Knight has to roll the lowest possible Str and Con and be generated with at least 35 apples and carrots in total at the same time, which basically never happens. Oh well, at least we now have ground truth to validate the simulated results. I've updated the page with simulated output over 10000000 samples. [[User:Prowler\|Prowler]] ([[User talk:Prowler\|talk]]) 12:15, 27 May 2026 (UTC)
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		+	:Thank you both so much for your contributions - I'll definitely update those sections for individual roles accordingly when the process of bringing them in line with 5.0.0, though with how much's changed and how much more needs to be accounted for it'll be a while (probably not before June starts, sadly). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 09:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:15, 27 May 2026
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	=== Sampling attributes from the game ===		=== Sampling attributes from the game ===
	I've done it in a different way for 5.0.0 by enabling the new reroll feature and sampling the attribute values from rerolling 100000 times for each race/role combination: [[User:Prowler/Attribute_distribution]] [[User:Prowler\|Prowler]] ([[User talk:Prowler\|talk]]) 23:44, 26 May 2026 (UTC)		I've done it in a different way for 5.0.0 by enabling the new reroll feature and sampling the attribute values from rerolling 100000 times for each race/role combination: [[User:Prowler/Attribute_distribution]] [[User:Prowler\|Prowler]] ([[User talk:Prowler\|talk]]) 23:44, 26 May 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	upd: I've run the simulation program for 3.7 and all the results were within ±0.01 of mine. The idea was to get more precise values by sampling from the game itself because, according to folks in IRC, Knights were supposed to have higher Str values than simulated ones because of adjustment due to being encumbered from their starting inventory. Turned out it's not really the case, and after looking more closely at the numbers it would seem that for that to kick in, a Knight has to roll the lowest possible Str and Con and be generated with at least 35 apples and carrots in total at the same time, which basically never happens. Oh well, at least we now have ground truth to validate the simulated results. I've updated the page with simulated output over 10000000 samples. [[User:Prowler\|Prowler]] ([[User talk:Prowler\|talk]]) 12:15, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:44, 26 May 2026
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	=== Initial attribute simulation code ===		=== Initial attribute simulation code ===
	I put the code in a github repository, since that's a better place for it than a wiki talk page: https://github.com/vultur-cadens/nethack-analysis/tree/main/attrsim [[User:Cathartes\|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes\|talk]]) 06:59, 17 July 2025 (UTC)		I put the code in a github repository, since that's a better place for it than a wiki talk page: https://github.com/vultur-cadens/nethack-analysis/tree/main/attrsim [[User:Cathartes\|Cathartes]] ([[User talk:Cathartes\|talk]]) 06:59, 17 July 2025 (UTC)
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		+
		+	=== Sampling attributes from the game ===
		+	I've done it in a different way for 5.0.0 by enabling the new reroll feature and sampling the attribute values from rerolling 100000 times for each race/role combination: [[User:Prowler/Attribute_distribution]] [[User:Prowler\|Prowler]] ([[User talk:Prowler\|talk]]) 23:44, 26 May 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:41, 10 April 2015
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	The table of permissible role/race/alignment combinations seems to be flat wrong. Starting with the first line, the table asserts human,elf,dwarf,gnome,doppelganger, while the code says MH_HUMAN\|MH_ELF\|MH_DWARF\|MH_GNOME\|MH_HOBBIT\|MH_VAMPIRE. I'm not changing things because I can't wiztest. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 07:23, 19 August 2011 (UTC)		The table of permissible role/race/alignment combinations seems to be flat wrong. Starting with the first line, the table asserts human,elf,dwarf,gnome,doppelganger, while the code says MH_HUMAN\|MH_ELF\|MH_DWARF\|MH_GNOME\|MH_HOBBIT\|MH_VAMPIRE. I'm not changing things because I can't wiztest. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 07:23, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
		+	:You don't need to wiztest. Just start a char and see what races you can start as --[[User:Elronnd\|Elronnd]] ([[User talk:Elronnd\|talk]]) 05:41, 10 April 2015 (UTC)Elronnd

← Older revision		Revision as of 07:23, 19 August 2011
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	This should be a huge page. It's one of the most important features of NetHack. It should have a discussion on the differences in roles, each roles special spell, and [[role difficulty]] should be merged to this article. And please don't say, "Do it yourself, moron!" because I'm exceedingly lazy and then I'll do it, and it will be shoddy work since I barely know anything at all. [[User:Grognor\|Grognor]] 18:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)		This should be a huge page. It's one of the most important features of NetHack. It should have a discussion on the differences in roles, each roles special spell, and [[role difficulty]] should be merged to this article. And please don't say, "Do it yourself, moron!" because I'm exceedingly lazy and then I'll do it, and it will be shoddy work since I barely know anything at all. [[User:Grognor\|Grognor]] 18:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
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		+	== slashem role table is flat wrong ==
		+
		+	The table of permissible role/race/alignment combinations seems to be flat wrong. Starting with the first line, the table asserts human,elf,dwarf,gnome,doppelganger, while the code says MH_HUMAN\|MH_ELF\|MH_DWARF\|MH_GNOME\|MH_HOBBIT\|MH_VAMPIRE. I'm not changing things because I can't wiztest. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 07:23, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:06, 8 June 2007
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	Most of these role pages omit any mention of that roles' speciality spell.--[[User:PeterGFin\|PeterGFin]] 18:28, 28 April 2007 (UTC)		Most of these role pages omit any mention of that roles' speciality spell.--[[User:PeterGFin\|PeterGFin]] 18:28, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

−	This should be a huge page. It's one of the most important features of NetHack. It should have a discussion on the differences in roles, each roles special spell, and [[role difficulty]] should be merged to this article. And please don't say, "Do it yourself, moron!" because I'm exceedingly lazy and then I'll do it, and it will be shoddy work since I barely know anything at all. [[User:Grognor\|~~Black Belt~~]] 18:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)	+	This should be a huge page. It's one of the most important features of NetHack. It should have a discussion on the differences in roles, each roles special spell, and [[role difficulty]] should be merged to this article. And please don't say, "Do it yourself, moron!" because I'm exceedingly lazy and then I'll do it, and it will be shoddy work since I barely know anything at all. [[User:Grognor\|Grognor]] 18:06, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:04, 8 June 2007
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	Most of these role pages omit any mention of that roles' speciality spell.--[[User:PeterGFin\|PeterGFin]] 18:28, 28 April 2007 (UTC)		Most of these role pages omit any mention of that roles' speciality spell.--[[User:PeterGFin\|PeterGFin]] 18:28, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
		+
		+	This should be a huge page. It's one of the most important features of NetHack. It should have a discussion on the differences in roles, each roles special spell, and [[role difficulty]] should be merged to this article. And please don't say, "Do it yourself, moron!" because I'm exceedingly lazy and then I'll do it, and it will be shoddy work since I barely know anything at all.