Talk:Smoky and milky potions - Revision history

Fyr: /* Advantages of Potion Identities */ new section

2014-07-09T04:40:07Z

‎Advantages of Potion Identities: new section

220.255.2.68: /* Potions requiring Mitigation */

2011-07-28T08:29:35Z

‎Potions requiring Mitigation

Tjr: /* Potions requiring Mitigation */ SLASHEM does cut HP

2011-07-28T07:24:09Z

‎Potions requiring Mitigation: SLASHEM does cut HP

Tjr: that's a myth: no damage from rehumanizing

2011-07-28T07:18:48Z

that's a myth: no damage from rehumanizing

Qazmlpok: /* Potions requiring Mitigation */

2011-07-27T21:25:00Z

‎Potions requiring Mitigation

Tjr at 19:06, 27 July 2011

2011-07-27T19:06:31Z

Qazmlpok: /* Potions requiring Mitigation */

2011-07-27T18:54:35Z

‎Potions requiring Mitigation

Ion frigate: /* Potions requiring Mitigation */

2011-07-27T18:13:18Z

‎Potions requiring Mitigation

Tjr: The idea is to rehumanize after each dragon polymorph,

2011-07-27T14:29:21Z

The idea is to rehumanize after each dragon polymorph,

Ion frigate at 11:34, 27 July 2011

2011-07-27T11:34:23Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:40, 9 July 2014
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	:::No, total ghosts generated regardless of source (guaranteed in level, from haunted temples, and of course from milky potion. I'm not sure about bones files). Same with djinni, actually - the guaranteed djinni on the plane of air do count against smoky potion djinni. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 12:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC)		:::No, total ghosts generated regardless of source (guaranteed in level, from haunted temples, and of course from milky potion. I'm not sure about bones files). Same with djinni, actually - the guaranteed djinni on the plane of air do count against smoky potion djinni. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 12:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
	::::So once I reach the Valley of the Dead, the chance of a ghost becomes microscopic? [[Special:Contributions/75.58.121.153\|75.58.121.153]] 12:28, 21 July 2011 (UTC)		::::So once I reach the Valley of the Dead, the chance of a ghost becomes microscopic? [[Special:Contributions/75.58.121.153\|75.58.121.153]] 12:28, 21 July 2011 (UTC)
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		+	== Advantages of Potion Identities ==
		+
		+	I like to think about the advantages and disadvantages of having smoky potions be this or that. Anything that monsters will quaff is bad, since they will sometimes waste a djinni summoning. Potions that are easy to make (like sickness) or find (like object detection) are good. I think the best is probably fruit juice - it is pretty common already, and you can get more by canceling booze or see invisible, dipping an amethyst into booze, or dipping a unihorn into sickness (which itself one of the more common types and easy to get from alchemy). Its effect is mildly helpful (although it can be annoying to have to wait if you are satiated and have a large stack of them - the only real downside). The worst possibility is undoubtedly polymorph - one of the rarest potions, no way to alchemize it, needs a lot of preparation to quaff safely, and each one you quaff is a lost opportunity to polymorph a junk magic item in the hope of getting a marker.
		+	[[User:Fyr\|Fyr]] ([[User talk:Fyr\|talk]]) 04:40, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

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 :::: That's a myth - in vanilla don't take damage from rehumanizing. 1) I don't see anything in the code chain that halves natural hit points (mattacku,hitmu,mdamageu,rehumanize,polyman). 2) rehumanize is called exactly the same way by the timeout as by HP loss ({{sourcecode|timeout.c|194}} versus {{sourcecode|mhitu.c|2051}}). 3) I have plenty of experience playing polyself-based speed runs, and I know I have reverted to almost fully healed base form. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 07:18, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 ::::SLASHEM does cut HP and maxHP, see {{sourcecode|mhitu.c|2555|version=SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F2}} --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 07:24, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 == Ghost ==

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 :::Max HP is SLASH'EM specific. Losing half of your HP is also present in vanilla. It only occurs upon rehumanization caused by HP loss, not any other source (e.g. natural timeout, another polymorph). -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 21:25, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 :::: That's a myth - in vanilla don't take damage from rehumanizing. 1) I don't see anything in the code chain that halves natural hit points (mattacku,hitmu,mdamageu,rehumanize,polyman). 2) rehumanize is called exactly the same way by the timeout as by HP loss ({{sourcecode|timeout.c|194}} versus {{sourcecode|mhitu.c|2051}}). 3) I have plenty of experience playing polyself-based speed runs, and I know I have reverted to almost fully healed base form. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 07:18, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
 == Ghost ==

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 ::Huh? In none of my speed runs, I lost any base form HP or maxHP from rehumanizing. --[[User:Tjr|Tjr]] 19:06, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 :::Max HP is SLASH'EM specific. Losing half of your HP is also present in vanilla. It only occurs upon rehumanization caused by HP loss, not any other source (e.g. natural timeout, another polymorph). -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 21:25, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 == Ghost ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:25, 27 July 2011
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	::Huh? In none of my speed runs, I lost any base form HP or maxHP from rehumanizing. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 19:06, 27 July 2011 (UTC)		::Huh? In none of my speed runs, I lost any base form HP or maxHP from rehumanizing. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 19:06, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
		+	:::Max HP is SLASH'EM specific. Losing half of your HP is also present in vanilla. It only occurs upon rehumanization caused by HP loss, not any other source (e.g. natural timeout, another polymorph). -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 21:25, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

	== Ghost ==		== Ghost ==

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 ::Doesn't that cut your rehumanized hp in half, in addition to possibly taking some max hp?  Or is it just SLASH'EM doppelgangers who have that problem? -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 18:13, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 :::In vanilla your hp is cut in half. Losing max HP is slash'em specific; IIRC you lose half of the maximum HP of your previous form if you have polymorph control and rehumanize from HP loss or get zapped by a wand of cancellation. I can't recall if it is doppelganger specific, but it's definitely slash'em specific at least. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 18:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 == Ghost ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:13, 27 July 2011
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	: The idea is to rehumanize after each dragon polymorph, e.g. by casting spells at yourself or throwing stuff up. But yes, it's a corner case that would clutter up the article. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 14:29, 27 July 2011 (UTC)		: The idea is to rehumanize after each dragon polymorph, e.g. by casting spells at yourself or throwing stuff up. But yes, it's a corner case that would clutter up the article. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 14:29, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
		+	::Doesn't that cut your rehumanized hp in half, in addition to possibly taking some max hp? Or is it just SLASH'EM doppelgangers who have that problem? -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 18:13, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

	== Ghost ==		== Ghost ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:29, 27 July 2011
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	I added the table with some changes to the article. I removed the Heal idea: the spells won't cure hallucination, blindness or confusion, and it's absolutely not worth using up alchemizable potions of (extra\|full) healing for this purpose, not when a unicorn horn is perfectly sufficient. Also, I didn't mention the dragon scale mail idea - you have to wait out each polymorph, because subsequent ones will destroy your dragon scale mail, in addition to being totally random. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 11:34, 27 July 2011 (UTC)		I added the table with some changes to the article. I removed the Heal idea: the spells won't cure hallucination, blindness or confusion, and it's absolutely not worth using up alchemizable potions of (extra\|full) healing for this purpose, not when a unicorn horn is perfectly sufficient. Also, I didn't mention the dragon scale mail idea - you have to wait out each polymorph, because subsequent ones will destroy your dragon scale mail, in addition to being totally random. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 11:34, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
		+
		+	: The idea is to rehumanize after each dragon polymorph, e.g. by casting spells at yourself or throwing stuff up. But yes, it's a corner case that would clutter up the article. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 14:29, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

	== Ghost ==		== Ghost ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:34, 27 July 2011
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	:::True, but both of those break polyselfless; PC gives you the choice of likely stat-shuffling or breaking that conduct. Unchanging does neither; granted, PC is more useful overall and more common I believe, but unchanging is better for this specific purpose. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 11:19, 27 July 2011 (UTC)		:::True, but both of those break polyselfless; PC gives you the choice of likely stat-shuffling or breaking that conduct. Unchanging does neither; granted, PC is more useful overall and more common I believe, but unchanging is better for this specific purpose. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 11:19, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
		+
		+	I added the table with some changes to the article. I removed the Heal idea: the spells won't cure hallucination, blindness or confusion, and it's absolutely not worth using up alchemizable potions of (extra\|full) healing for this purpose, not when a unicorn horn is perfectly sufficient. Also, I didn't mention the dragon scale mail idea - you have to wait out each polymorph, because subsequent ones will destroy your dragon scale mail, in addition to being totally random. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 11:34, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

	== Ghost ==		== Ghost ==