Talk:Sokoban Level 2a - Revision history

Hoanwan: /* Faster solution */

2018-08-25T14:30:53Z

‎Faster solution

Winny: /* Faster solution */

2018-08-24T15:11:27Z

‎Faster solution

Hoanwan: /* Faster solution */ typo

2018-08-24T00:23:42Z

‎Faster solution: typo

Hoanwan: /* Faster solution */ ???

2018-08-24T00:23:10Z

‎Faster solution: ???

Winny: thoughts about the new solution

2018-08-21T18:41:22Z

thoughts about the new solution

Hoanwan: /* Faster solution */ new section

2018-08-10T21:50:09Z

‎Faster solution: new section

Tjr: /* Video format */ new section

2011-06-07T10:53:54Z

‎Video format: new section

Skidragon at 12:54, 1 July 2009

2009-07-01T12:54:07Z

Tjr: never mind, article already has it

2009-06-26T10:51:45Z

never mind, article already has it

Tjr: /* Solution without stuck boulders */ new section

2009-06-26T10:50:19Z

‎Solution without stuck boulders: new section

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:30, 25 August 2018
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	::: If you take a look at each of the other levels' solutions, you'll notice all the boulders left over are freely movable - whereas in the new solution for 2a we can reason A, C, and F are not freely movable because we cannot move them out of the corner - only further towards the NE corner. - [[User:Winny\|Winny]] ([[User talk:Winny\|talk]])		::: If you take a look at each of the other levels' solutions, you'll notice all the boulders left over are freely movable - whereas in the new solution for 2a we can reason A, C, and F are not freely movable because we cannot move them out of the corner - only further towards the NE corner. - [[User:Winny\|Winny]] ([[User talk:Winny\|talk]])
		+
		+	:::: Thanks for explaining. To me, "immobile" means "cannot be moved from its current position", whereas you want to be able to move everything to the corridor where the holes were. That's no problem - if you want to do that you can always move C down and F left (as I mention at the bottom) before you move A.
		+	:::: To me, though, the advantage of not having an immobile boulder is that a monster can't throw something I want to somewhere where I can't get at it, such as under a boulder. That's not really a risk here. [[User:Hoanwan\|Hoanwan]] ([[User talk:Hoanwan\|talk]]) 14:30, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:11, 24 August 2018
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	:: Could you explain your point in a bit more detail? Do you feel that one of the remaining boulders is in an immovable position? Thanks. [[User:Hoanwan\|Hoanwan]] ([[User talk:Hoanwan\|talk]]) 00:22, 24 August 2018 (UTC)		:: Could you explain your point in a bit more detail? Do you feel that one of the remaining boulders is in an immovable position? Thanks. [[User:Hoanwan\|Hoanwan]] ([[User talk:Hoanwan\|talk]]) 00:22, 24 August 2018 (UTC)
		+
		+	::: If you take a look at each of the other levels' solutions, you'll notice all the boulders left over are freely movable - whereas in the new solution for 2a we can reason A, C, and F are not freely movable because we cannot move them out of the corner - only further towards the NE corner. - [[User:Winny\|Winny]] ([[User talk:Winny\|talk]])

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:23, 24 August 2018
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	: Your solution is indeed faster, but it breaks the guarantee "The following solution solves the level without putting any boulders in an immobile position." since this solution requires the player to place the remaining boulders in an immovable position to get to the top right corner (for whatever reason). So maybe a (slightly slower) solution where the aforementioned statement holds true can be derived from the solution you found? [[User:Winny\|Winny]] ([[User talk:Winny\|talk]]) 18:39, 21 August 2018 (UTC)		: Your solution is indeed faster, but it breaks the guarantee "The following solution solves the level without putting any boulders in an immobile position." since this solution requires the player to place the remaining boulders in an immovable position to get to the top right corner (for whatever reason). So maybe a (slightly slower) solution where the aforementioned statement holds true can be derived from the solution you found? [[User:Winny\|Winny]] ([[User talk:Winny\|talk]]) 18:39, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

−	:: Could you explain your point in a bit more detail? Do you feel that one of the remaining boulders is in an immovable position? ~~THanks~~. [[User:Hoanwan\|Hoanwan]] ([[User talk:Hoanwan\|talk]]) 00:22, 24 August 2018 (UTC)	+	:: Could you explain your point in a bit more detail? Do you feel that one of the remaining boulders is in an immovable position? Thanks. [[User:Hoanwan\|Hoanwan]] ([[User talk:Hoanwan\|talk]]) 00:22, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:23, 24 August 2018
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	: Your solution is indeed faster, but it breaks the guarantee "The following solution solves the level without putting any boulders in an immobile position." since this solution requires the player to place the remaining boulders in an immovable position to get to the top right corner (for whatever reason). So maybe a (slightly slower) solution where the aforementioned statement holds true can be derived from the solution you found? [[User:Winny\|Winny]] ([[User talk:Winny\|talk]]) 18:39, 21 August 2018 (UTC)		: Your solution is indeed faster, but it breaks the guarantee "The following solution solves the level without putting any boulders in an immobile position." since this solution requires the player to place the remaining boulders in an immovable position to get to the top right corner (for whatever reason). So maybe a (slightly slower) solution where the aforementioned statement holds true can be derived from the solution you found? [[User:Winny\|Winny]] ([[User talk:Winny\|talk]]) 18:39, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
		+
		+	:: Could you explain your point in a bit more detail? Do you feel that one of the remaining boulders is in an immovable position? THanks. [[User:Hoanwan\|Hoanwan]] ([[User talk:Hoanwan\|talk]]) 00:22, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:41, 21 August 2018
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	If there's a better way to format these not-really-a-screenshot things, or if there's an improvement I could make to the solution, I'd love to hear about it. [[User:Hoanwan\|Hoanwan]] ([[User talk:Hoanwan\|talk]]) 21:50, 10 August 2018 (UTC)		If there's a better way to format these not-really-a-screenshot things, or if there's an improvement I could make to the solution, I'd love to hear about it. [[User:Hoanwan\|Hoanwan]] ([[User talk:Hoanwan\|talk]]) 21:50, 10 August 2018 (UTC)
		+
		+	: Your solution is indeed faster, but it breaks the guarantee "The following solution solves the level without putting any boulders in an immobile position." since this solution requires the player to place the remaining boulders in an immovable position to get to the top right corner (for whatever reason). So maybe a (slightly slower) solution where the aforementioned statement holds true can be derived from the solution you found? [[User:Winny\|Winny]] ([[User talk:Winny\|talk]]) 18:39, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:50, 10 August 2018
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	Could somebody please turn my ttyrecs into a video widget users can click on to make it start playing, similar to embedded youtube clips? I don't know how. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 10:53, 7 June 2011 (UTC)		Could somebody please turn my ttyrecs into a video widget users can click on to make it start playing, similar to embedded youtube clips? I don't know how. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 10:53, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Faster solution ==
		+
		+	I've replaced the solution for 2a with an improved version of it which doesn't take as long to carry out (I make it 585 turns as opposed to 755, asssuming no monsters disturb you). I've formatted it a bit differently as it was hard to follow on my phone. It still looks odd as I've done it, with the screenshots (in ttymap divs) much smaller than the rest of the text, and generally looking a lot worse than Nethack typically does.
		+
		+	If there's a better way to format these not-really-a-screenshot things, or if there's an improvement I could make to the solution, I'd love to hear about it. [[User:Hoanwan\|Hoanwan]] ([[User talk:Hoanwan\|talk]]) 21:50, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:53, 7 June 2011
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	For a slightly faster solution leave A and D up, and push C left 2. Then you can use the smaller/shorter loop to finish most of the boulders rather than having to go all the way around the outside loop multiple times.		For a slightly faster solution leave A and D up, and push C left 2. Then you can use the smaller/shorter loop to finish most of the boulders rather than having to go all the way around the outside loop multiple times.
	[[User:Skidragon\|Skidragon]] 12:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)		[[User:Skidragon\|Skidragon]] 12:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Video format ==
		+
		+	Could somebody please turn my ttyrecs into a video widget users can click on to make it start playing, similar to embedded youtube clips? I don't know how. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 10:53, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:54, 1 July 2009
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	::It is correct. You have to push the boulder to the left so you can get around it to push it to the right. You can solve it without doing that, though, so do whatever works for you. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 22:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)		::It is correct. You have to push the boulder to the left so you can get around it to push it to the right. You can solve it without doing that, though, so do whatever works for you. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 22:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
	P boulder in third section can be done in an little simplier way (rdrr uurd rrrr rrr) - that is without moving it first left and then right. Same holds for boulder I: rdrr rrrr rr* - that is - just push it to right instead of going first left and then right with it. (can someone check - just to be completely sure?)		P boulder in third section can be done in an little simplier way (rdrr uurd rrrr rrr) - that is without moving it first left and then right. Same holds for boulder I: rdrr rrrr rr* - that is - just push it to right instead of going first left and then right with it. (can someone check - just to be completely sure?)
		+
		+	For a slightly faster solution leave A and D up, and push C left 2. Then you can use the smaller/shorter loop to finish most of the boulders rather than having to go all the way around the outside loop multiple times.
		+	[[User:Skidragon\|Skidragon]] 12:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:51, 26 June 2009
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	::It is correct. You have to push the boulder to the left so you can get around it to push it to the right. You can solve it without doing that, though, so do whatever works for you. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 22:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)		::It is correct. You have to push the boulder to the left so you can get around it to push it to the right. You can solve it without doing that, though, so do whatever works for you. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 22:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
	P boulder in third section can be done in an little simplier way (rdrr uurd rrrr rrr) - that is without moving it first left and then right. Same holds for boulder I: rdrr rrrr rr* - that is - just push it to right instead of going first left and then right with it. (can someone check - just to be completely sure?)		P boulder in third section can be done in an little simplier way (rdrr uurd rrrr rrr) - that is without moving it first left and then right. Same holds for boulder I: rdrr rrrr rr* - that is - just push it to right instead of going first left and then right with it. (can someone check - just to be completely sure?)
−
−	~~== Solution without stuck boulders ==~~
−
−	There is a solution without any stuck boulders. The trick is to move A up, G left, D up. Then you finish enough boulders to move D out of the way, jump down a hole, and come back up the stairs on the other side of A so you can push it back down. I'm going to properly document this later. -[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 10:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 10:50, 26 June 2009
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	::It is correct. You have to push the boulder to the left so you can get around it to push it to the right. You can solve it without doing that, though, so do whatever works for you. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 22:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)		::It is correct. You have to push the boulder to the left so you can get around it to push it to the right. You can solve it without doing that, though, so do whatever works for you. --[[User:MadDawg2552\|MadDawg2552]] 22:51, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
	P boulder in third section can be done in an little simplier way (rdrr uurd rrrr rrr) - that is without moving it first left and then right. Same holds for boulder I: rdrr rrrr rr* - that is - just push it to right instead of going first left and then right with it. (can someone check - just to be completely sure?)		P boulder in third section can be done in an little simplier way (rdrr uurd rrrr rrr) - that is without moving it first left and then right. Same holds for boulder I: rdrr rrrr rr* - that is - just push it to right instead of going first left and then right with it. (can someone check - just to be completely sure?)
		+
		+	== Solution without stuck boulders ==
		+
		+	There is a solution without any stuck boulders. The trick is to move A up, G left, D up. Then you finish enough boulders to move D out of the way, jump down a hole, and come back up the stairs on the other side of A so you can push it back down. I'm going to properly document this later. -[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 10:50, 26 June 2009 (UTC)