https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=Talk%3ATrap 2026-06-26T13:22:20Z Revision history for this page on the wiki MediaWiki 1.32.5 https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Trap&diff=147544&oldid=prev 2022-08-15T12:59:43Z

<p>‎<span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Can we split this into articles for each trap?: </span> my reply</span></p> <table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 12:59, 15 August 2022</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l112" >Line 112:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 112:</td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: A possible compromise is using a table instead of a bare list, similar to how we split [[special room]]s. Columns would include ‘trap’, ‘effect summary’ and ‘removal’. This way a reader could get some basic information on each trap without trivia such as messages, variant info or the exact health lost by golems stepping on fire traps. —-[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 05:16, 15 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: A possible compromise is using a table instead of a bare list, similar to how we split [[special room]]s. Columns would include ‘trap’, ‘effect summary’ and ‘removal’. This way a reader could get some basic information on each trap without trivia such as messages, variant info or the exact health lost by golems stepping on fire traps. —-[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 05:16, 15 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::::: I think there's too much data per trap for a table to be viable. Ultimately I'm okay with splitting the traps into their own pages; I'm fine with the page the way it is, but I understand it could be awkward for e.g. mobile users to do all that scrolling. --[[User:Darth l33t|Darth l33t]] ([[User talk:Darth l33t|talk]]) 12:59, 15 August 2022 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr> </table>

Darth l33t https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Trap&diff=147535&oldid=prev 2022-08-15T05:16:37Z

<p>‎<span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Can we split this into articles for each trap?: </span> possible compromise: table of traps instead of list</span></p> <table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 05:16, 15 August 2022</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l110" >Line 110:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 110:</td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: There's an argument to be made for splitting the article up on length alone: basically &quot;when the list of sections box is taller than your browser's page-height, you have a problem.&quot; This article is the 49th longest on the wiki at [[Special:LongPages]], and higher than that if you ignore articles describing entire versions or variants.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: There's an argument to be made for splitting the article up on length alone: basically &quot;when the list of sections box is taller than your browser's page-height, you have a problem.&quot; This article is the 49th longest on the wiki at [[Special:LongPages]], and higher than that if you ignore articles describing entire versions or variants.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: Counterpoint to Darth l33t's argument: for the majority of other categories like potions, wands, and insects, the wiki doesn't cater to those who wish to read about all potions, wands, or insects in a single page, so there isn't much precedent. Breaking up this page would fit in with that majority. --[[User:Phol ende wodan|Phol ende wodan]] ([[User talk:Phol ende wodan|talk]]) 11:42, 13 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: Counterpoint to Darth l33t's argument: for the majority of other categories like potions, wands, and insects, the wiki doesn't cater to those who wish to read about all potions, wands, or insects in a single page, so there isn't much precedent. Breaking up this page would fit in with that majority. --[[User:Phol ende wodan|Phol ende wodan]] ([[User talk:Phol ende wodan|talk]]) 11:42, 13 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::: A possible compromise is using a table instead of a bare list, similar to how we split [[special room]]s. Columns would include ‘trap’, ‘effect summary’ and ‘removal’. This way a reader could get some basic information on each trap without trivia such as messages, variant info or the exact health lost by golems stepping on fire traps. —-[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 05:16, 15 August 2022 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr> </table>

Aximili https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Trap&diff=147501&oldid=prev 2022-08-13T23:03:44Z

<p>‎<span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Can we split this into articles for each trap?: </span> LongPages not Long Pages</span></p> <table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 23:03, 13 August 2022</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l108" >Line 108:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 108:</td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: That still doesn't address the issue of the variants section being all the way at the bottom of the page - which is not a big deal for dart trap but is significant for some of the others. For instance if you get redirected to the fire trap section you might not notice the SLASH'EM specific changes to fire traps. There is a similar problem for the traps that have encyclopedia entries. Also to be frank I don't think reading about the traps one by one on the present page is a pleasant experience at all. Each trap (that doesn't already have its own page) has its own messages, removal instructions and some other minor trivia like the exact number of arrows in an arrow trap. There are almost no subsections, probably because proper subsections would double the height of the massive table of contents. This article is a lot messier than the feline and canine articles, even the humble dart trap has more prose than wargs, wolves and dingos combined. And you can't even read about all the traps anyway because *some* of them do have their own articles. To be clear: I think the work each individual editor made in each individual section is great, it's only the whole that I find a nuisance. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 22:39, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: That still doesn't address the issue of the variants section being all the way at the bottom of the page - which is not a big deal for dart trap but is significant for some of the others. For instance if you get redirected to the fire trap section you might not notice the SLASH'EM specific changes to fire traps. There is a similar problem for the traps that have encyclopedia entries. Also to be frank I don't think reading about the traps one by one on the present page is a pleasant experience at all. Each trap (that doesn't already have its own page) has its own messages, removal instructions and some other minor trivia like the exact number of arrows in an arrow trap. There are almost no subsections, probably because proper subsections would double the height of the massive table of contents. This article is a lot messier than the feline and canine articles, even the humble dart trap has more prose than wargs, wolves and dingos combined. And you can't even read about all the traps anyway because *some* of them do have their own articles. To be clear: I think the work each individual editor made in each individual section is great, it's only the whole that I find a nuisance. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 22:39, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: There's an argument to be made for splitting the article up on length alone: basically &quot;when the list of sections box is taller than your browser's page-height, you have a problem.&quot; This article is the 49th longest on the wiki at [[Special:<del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">Long pages</del>]], and higher than that if you ignore articles describing entire versions or variants.</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: There's an argument to be made for splitting the article up on length alone: basically &quot;when the list of sections box is taller than your browser's page-height, you have a problem.&quot; This article is the 49th longest on the wiki at [[Special:<ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">LongPages</ins>]], and higher than that if you ignore articles describing entire versions or variants.</div></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: Counterpoint to Darth l33t's argument: for the majority of other categories like potions, wands, and insects, the wiki doesn't cater to those who wish to read about all potions, wands, or insects in a single page, so there isn't much precedent. Breaking up this page would fit in with that majority. --[[User:Phol ende wodan|Phol ende wodan]] ([[User talk:Phol ende wodan|talk]]) 11:42, 13 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: Counterpoint to Darth l33t's argument: for the majority of other categories like potions, wands, and insects, the wiki doesn't cater to those who wish to read about all potions, wands, or insects in a single page, so there isn't much precedent. Breaking up this page would fit in with that majority. --[[User:Phol ende wodan|Phol ende wodan]] ([[User talk:Phol ende wodan|talk]]) 11:42, 13 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> </table>

Phol ende wodan https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Trap&diff=147497&oldid=prev 2022-08-13T11:42:25Z

<p>‎<span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Can we split this into articles for each trap?</span></span></p> <table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 11:42, 13 August 2022</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l107" >Line 107:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 107:</td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: That still doesn't address the issue of the variants section being all the way at the bottom of the page - which is not a big deal for dart trap but is significant for some of the others. For instance if you get redirected to the fire trap section you might not notice the SLASH'EM specific changes to fire traps. There is a similar problem for the traps that have encyclopedia entries. Also to be frank I don't think reading about the traps one by one on the present page is a pleasant experience at all. Each trap (that doesn't already have its own page) has its own messages, removal instructions and some other minor trivia like the exact number of arrows in an arrow trap. There are almost no subsections, probably because proper subsections would double the height of the massive table of contents. This article is a lot messier than the feline and canine articles, even the humble dart trap has more prose than wargs, wolves and dingos combined. And you can't even read about all the traps anyway because *some* of them do have their own articles. To be clear: I think the work each individual editor made in each individual section is great, it's only the whole that I find a nuisance. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 22:39, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::: That still doesn't address the issue of the variants section being all the way at the bottom of the page - which is not a big deal for dart trap but is significant for some of the others. For instance if you get redirected to the fire trap section you might not notice the SLASH'EM specific changes to fire traps. There is a similar problem for the traps that have encyclopedia entries. Also to be frank I don't think reading about the traps one by one on the present page is a pleasant experience at all. Each trap (that doesn't already have its own page) has its own messages, removal instructions and some other minor trivia like the exact number of arrows in an arrow trap. There are almost no subsections, probably because proper subsections would double the height of the massive table of contents. This article is a lot messier than the feline and canine articles, even the humble dart trap has more prose than wargs, wolves and dingos combined. And you can't even read about all the traps anyway because *some* of them do have their own articles. To be clear: I think the work each individual editor made in each individual section is great, it's only the whole that I find a nuisance. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 22:39, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::: There's an argument to be made for splitting the article up on length alone: basically &quot;when the list of sections box is taller than your browser's page-height, you have a problem.&quot; This article is the 49th longest on the wiki at [[Special:Long pages]], and higher than that if you ignore articles describing entire versions or variants.</ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::: Counterpoint to Darth l33t's argument: for the majority of other categories like potions, wands, and insects, the wiki doesn't cater to those who wish to read about all potions, wands, or insects in a single page, so there isn't much precedent. Breaking up this page would fit in with that majority. --[[User:Phol ende wodan|Phol ende wodan]] ([[User talk:Phol ende wodan|talk]]) 11:42, 13 August 2022 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr> </table>

Phol ende wodan https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Trap&diff=147493&oldid=prev 2022-08-12T22:39:03Z

<p></p> <table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 22:39, 12 August 2022</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l105" >Line 105:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 105:</td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::: Zruties are their own monster class, so there's nowhere to really put them other than their own article. There's no article for {{monclass|b}}s, just a redirect, but if there were I'd say the quivering blob should go there. Most {{monclass|d}}s and {{monclass|f}}s are discussed in their monster class article because there's not a whole lot to say about them, and I think that's also true for most traps. [[Dart trap]] and the other individual traps link to the fragment in the trap page, so the browser will automatically scroll to the right section, and the other text in the article will load in negligible time, whereas clicking a link to a separate page is an extra step -- if you want to read up on all the traps, that's a lot of extra steps. --[[User:Darth l33t|Darth l33t]] ([[User talk:Darth l33t|talk]]) 21:30, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>::: Zruties are their own monster class, so there's nowhere to really put them other than their own article. There's no article for {{monclass|b}}s, just a redirect, but if there were I'd say the quivering blob should go there. Most {{monclass|d}}s and {{monclass|f}}s are discussed in their monster class article because there's not a whole lot to say about them, and I think that's also true for most traps. [[Dart trap]] and the other individual traps link to the fragment in the trap page, so the browser will automatically scroll to the right section, and the other text in the article will load in negligible time, whereas clicking a link to a separate page is an extra step -- if you want to read up on all the traps, that's a lot of extra steps. --[[User:Darth l33t|Darth l33t]] ([[User talk:Darth l33t|talk]]) 21:30, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:::: That still doesn't address the issue of the variants section being all the way at the bottom of the page - which is not a big deal for dart trap but is significant for some of the others. For instance if you get redirected to the fire trap section you might not notice the SLASH'EM specific changes to fire traps. There is a similar problem for the traps that have encyclopedia entries. Also to be frank I don't think reading about the traps one by one on the present page is a pleasant experience at all. Each trap (that doesn't already have its own page) has its own messages, removal instructions and some other minor trivia like the exact number of arrows in an arrow trap. There are almost no subsections, probably because proper subsections would double the height of the massive table of contents. This article is a lot messier than the feline and canine articles, even the humble dart trap has more prose than wargs, wolves and dingos combined. And you can't even read about all the traps anyway because *some* of them do have their own articles. To be clear: I think the work each individual editor made in each individual section is great, it's only the whole that I find a nuisance. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 22:39, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr> </table>

Aximili https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Trap&diff=147485&oldid=prev 2022-08-12T21:30:37Z

<p>‎<span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Can we split this into articles for each trap?</span></span></p> <table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 21:30, 12 August 2022</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l103" >Line 103:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 103:</td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:: Additionally as mentioned earlier, the trap article has a variants section... which people might not even notice if they arrive by a search or redirect. Fundamentally the proposed change is about sacrificing the experience for someone reading about all traps in a single sitting, to improve the experience for someone who just wants to read about one. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 20:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:: Additionally as mentioned earlier, the trap article has a variants section... which people might not even notice if they arrive by a search or redirect. Fundamentally the proposed change is about sacrificing the experience for someone reading about all traps in a single sitting, to improve the experience for someone who just wants to read about one. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 20:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">::: Zruties are their own monster class, so there's nowhere to really put them other than their own article. There's no article for {{monclass|b}}s, just a redirect, but if there were I'd say the quivering blob should go there. Most {{monclass|d}}s and {{monclass|f}}s are discussed in their monster class article because there's not a whole lot to say about them, and I think that's also true for most traps. [[Dart trap]] and the other individual traps link to the fragment in the trap page, so the browser will automatically scroll to the right section, and the other text in the article will load in negligible time, whereas clicking a link to a separate page is an extra step -- if you want to read up on all the traps, that's a lot of extra steps. --[[User:Darth l33t|Darth l33t]] ([[User talk:Darth l33t|talk]]) 21:30, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr> </table>

Darth l33t https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Trap&diff=147484&oldid=prev 2022-08-12T20:14:29Z

<p>‎<span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Can we split this into articles for each trap?: </span> reword my comment</span></p> <table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 20:14, 12 August 2022</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l102" >Line 102:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 102:</td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:: Regarding the complexity of traps, some simple monsters like the [[zruty]] and [[quivering blob]] have their own articles. I don't think short articles are really a problem. The point about the extra click is reasonable but presupposes a reader is scrolling through the trap page reading about every kind of trap. I do not think that is typical behaviour. It seems more likely to me that someone would search for &quot;dart trap&quot; and end up redirected to the page, in which case having a separate page for dart trap would avoid loading data about all the other traps. Finally, I probably said 1 page per trap somewhere but I'm willing to concede that certain really similar traps can be combined. We could have a single &quot;dart and arrow trap&quot; article much like how we deal with [[frost horn]] and [[fire horn]]. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 19:57, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:: Regarding the complexity of traps, some simple monsters like the [[zruty]] and [[quivering blob]] have their own articles. I don't think short articles are really a problem. The point about the extra click is reasonable but presupposes a reader is scrolling through the trap page reading about every kind of trap. I do not think that is typical behaviour. It seems more likely to me that someone would search for &quot;dart trap&quot; and end up redirected to the page, in which case having a separate page for dart trap would avoid loading data about all the other traps. Finally, I probably said 1 page per trap somewhere but I'm willing to concede that certain really similar traps can be combined. We could have a single &quot;dart and arrow trap&quot; article much like how we deal with [[frost horn]] and [[fire horn]]. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 19:57, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'>−</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #ffe49c; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:: Additionally as mentioned earlier, the trap article has a variants section... which people might not even notice if they arrive by a search or redirect. Fundamentally <del class="diffchange diffchange-inline">this </del>is sacrificing the experience for someone reading about all traps in a single sitting, to improve the experience for someone who just wants to read about one. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 20:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:: Additionally as mentioned earlier, the trap article has a variants section... which people might not even notice if they arrive by a search or redirect. Fundamentally <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">the proposed change </ins>is <ins class="diffchange diffchange-inline">about </ins>sacrificing the experience for someone reading about all traps in a single sitting, to improve the experience for someone who just wants to read about one. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 20:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> </table>

Aximili https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Trap&diff=147483&oldid=prev 2022-08-12T20:12:04Z

<p>‎<span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Can we split this into articles for each trap?</span></span></p> <table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 20:12, 12 August 2022</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l101" >Line 101:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 101:</td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:: Regarding the complexity of traps, some simple monsters like the [[zruty]] and [[quivering blob]] have their own articles. I don't think short articles are really a problem. The point about the extra click is reasonable but presupposes a reader is scrolling through the trap page reading about every kind of trap. I do not think that is typical behaviour. It seems more likely to me that someone would search for &quot;dart trap&quot; and end up redirected to the page, in which case having a separate page for dart trap would avoid loading data about all the other traps. Finally, I probably said 1 page per trap somewhere but I'm willing to concede that certain really similar traps can be combined. We could have a single &quot;dart and arrow trap&quot; article much like how we deal with [[frost horn]] and [[fire horn]]. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 19:57, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:: Regarding the complexity of traps, some simple monsters like the [[zruty]] and [[quivering blob]] have their own articles. I don't think short articles are really a problem. The point about the extra click is reasonable but presupposes a reader is scrolling through the trap page reading about every kind of trap. I do not think that is typical behaviour. It seems more likely to me that someone would search for &quot;dart trap&quot; and end up redirected to the page, in which case having a separate page for dart trap would avoid loading data about all the other traps. Finally, I probably said 1 page per trap somewhere but I'm willing to concede that certain really similar traps can be combined. We could have a single &quot;dart and arrow trap&quot; article much like how we deal with [[frost horn]] and [[fire horn]]. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 19:57, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:: Additionally as mentioned earlier, the trap article has a variants section... which people might not even notice if they arrive by a search or redirect. Fundamentally this is sacrificing the experience for someone reading about all traps in a single sitting, to improve the experience for someone who just wants to read about one. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 20:11, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr> </table>

Aximili https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Trap&diff=147482&oldid=prev 2022-08-12T19:58:39Z

<p>‎<span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Can we split this into articles for each trap?</span></span></p> <table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 19:58, 12 August 2022</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l99" >Line 99:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 99:</td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>: Most of the traps aren't really complex enough to warrant their own articles - the dart trap and squeaky board articles would be only a couple paragraphs long, for example. Some of the longer ones, like the anti-magic field and fire trap, might be justified as separate pages, but I don't see the reasoning behind moving every trap to its own article, which would require another click and page load to view a small amount of information. --[[User:Darth l33t|Darth l33t]] ([[User talk:Darth l33t|talk]]) 18:51, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>: Most of the traps aren't really complex enough to warrant their own articles - the dart trap and squeaky board articles would be only a couple paragraphs long, for example. Some of the longer ones, like the anti-magic field and fire trap, might be justified as separate pages, but I don't see the reasoning behind moving every trap to its own article, which would require another click and page load to view a small amount of information. --[[User:Darth l33t|Darth l33t]] ([[User talk:Darth l33t|talk]]) 18:51, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">:: Regarding the complexity of traps, some simple monsters like the [[zruty]] and [[quivering blob]] have their own articles. I don't think short articles are really a problem. The point about the extra click is reasonable but presupposes a reader is scrolling through the trap page reading about every kind of trap. I do not think that is typical behaviour. It seems more likely to me that someone would search for &quot;dart trap&quot; and end up redirected to the page, in which case having a separate page for dart trap would avoid loading data about all the other traps. Finally, I probably said 1 page per trap somewhere but I'm willing to concede that certain really similar traps can be combined. We could have a single &quot;dart and arrow trap&quot; article much like how we deal with [[frost horn]] and [[fire horn]]. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 19:57, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr> </table>

Aximili https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Talk:Trap&diff=147481&oldid=prev 2022-08-12T18:51:12Z

<p>‎<span dir="auto"><span class="autocomment">Can we split this into articles for each trap?</span></span></p> <table class="diff diff-contentalign-left" data-mw="interface"> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <col class="diff-marker" /> <col class="diff-content" /> <tr class="diff-title" lang="en"> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td> <td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #222; text-align: center;">Revision as of 18:51, 12 August 2022</td> </tr><tr><td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno" id="mw-diff-left-l97" >Line 97:</td> <td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 97:</td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"></td></tr> <tr><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::To me, it seems straightforward (but perhaps time consuming). First we create all the new articles (possibly turning redirects into articles). Then change the sectioning for the new articles. Then remove the old blocks of text from the giant trap article. Then fix any links to the trap article that would be broken. It's laborious but also not tough to think through, and the first part can be done gradually. I have done similar splits for [[special room]]s, [[Bane]]s and [[object materials]]. Of course all of those were a lot more obscure topics, and some had TODOs asking for a reorganization. The most conceptually annoying parts will probably be references between different traps, and some of the variant info which applies to multiple types of trap. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 18:34, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td><td class='diff-marker'> </td><td style="background-color: #f8f9fa; color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #eaecf0; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div>:::To me, it seems straightforward (but perhaps time consuming). First we create all the new articles (possibly turning redirects into articles). Then change the sectioning for the new articles. Then remove the old blocks of text from the giant trap article. Then fix any links to the trap article that would be broken. It's laborious but also not tough to think through, and the first part can be done gradually. I have done similar splits for [[special room]]s, [[Bane]]s and [[object materials]]. Of course all of those were a lot more obscure topics, and some had TODOs asking for a reorganization. The most conceptually annoying parts will probably be references between different traps, and some of the variant info which applies to multiple types of trap. --[[User:Aximili|Aximili]] ([[User talk:Aximili|talk]]) 18:34, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;"></ins></div></td></tr> <tr><td colspan="2"> </td><td class='diff-marker'>+</td><td style="color: #222; font-size: 88%; border-style: solid; border-width: 1px 1px 1px 4px; border-radius: 0.33em; border-color: #a3d3ff; vertical-align: top; white-space: pre-wrap;"><div><ins style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: none;">: Most of the traps aren't really complex enough to warrant their own articles - the dart trap and squeaky board articles would be only a couple paragraphs long, for example. Some of the longer ones, like the anti-magic field and fire trap, might be justified as separate pages, but I don't see the reasoning behind moving every trap to its own article, which would require another click and page load to view a small amount of information. --[[User:Darth l33t|Darth l33t]] ([[User talk:Darth l33t|talk]]) 18:51, 12 August 2022 (UTC)</ins></div></td></tr> </table>

Darth l33t