Talk:Undefined - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom: +1

2026-07-18T05:38:28Z

Rivest–Shamir–Adleman at 05:30, 18 July 2026

2026-07-18T05:30:33Z

Umbire the Phantom: re: merge

2026-07-18T00:08:03Z

re: merge

Rivest–Shamir–Adleman: up for possible deletion + merge is finalized

2026-07-17T15:18:32Z

up for possible deletion + merge is finalized

Umbire the Phantom: additional $0.02

2026-07-17T01:30:52Z

additional $0.02

Umbire the Phantom: reply

2026-07-17T00:05:57Z

Rivest–Shamir–Adleman: Vote deletionist

2026-07-16T23:43:27Z

Vote deletionist

New page

I have merged the stub with base material article for archival reference. Lets keep our head clear, and mission in sight. This page currently has zero 0 value for Guidebook information. It is what we are, not a graveyard for DevTeam Source Code Dead Ends. I'm not calling the shots however this is suggestion. Discuss :)
Yours
[[User:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman|Rivest–Shamir–Adleman]] ([[User talk:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman|talk]]) 23:42, 16 July 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:38, 18 July 2026
Line 22:		Line 22:

	[[User:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|Rivest–Shamir–Adleman]] ([[User talk:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|talk]]) 05:30, 18 July 2026 (UTC)		[[User:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|Rivest–Shamir–Adleman]] ([[User talk:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|talk]]) 05:30, 18 July 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	:I'm probably the most surprised out of both of us, this is the most material-specific diving I've done to this point. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 05:38, 18 July 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 05:30, 18 July 2026
Line 18:		Line 18:

	:So, bit of good news and bad news. Bad news: we ''might'' have to put a pin in that merge indefinitely. Good news: it's because it turns out there's a lot more historical info to dig out in the source code of versions from [[Source:NetHack_3.0.0/objects.c\|NetHack 3.0.0]] to [[Source:NetHack_3.1.0/objects.c\|NetHack 3.1.0]]! And then there's between-individual-version changes, such as a bunch of material stuff already being present in 3.0.10 before 3.1 made any changes. I'm already working on updating this and the [[material]] article with what I've dug up so far. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 00:07, 18 July 2026 (UTC)		:So, bit of good news and bad news. Bad news: we ''might'' have to put a pin in that merge indefinitely. Good news: it's because it turns out there's a lot more historical info to dig out in the source code of versions from [[Source:NetHack_3.0.0/objects.c\|NetHack 3.0.0]] to [[Source:NetHack_3.1.0/objects.c\|NetHack 3.1.0]]! And then there's between-individual-version changes, such as a bunch of material stuff already being present in 3.0.10 before 3.1 made any changes. I'm already working on updating this and the [[material]] article with what I've dug up so far. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 00:07, 18 July 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	I'll have to accept the indefinite Merge pin.. This could be too much to merge anyhow, by looking at the amount of historical reference you have managed to gather, I am in awe :) Well done Umbire!
		+
		+	[[User:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|Rivest–Shamir–Adleman]] ([[User talk:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|talk]]) 05:30, 18 July 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:08, 18 July 2026
Line 16:		Line 16:

	[[User:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|Rivest–Shamir–Adleman]] ([[User talk:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|talk]]) 15:18, 17 July 2026 (UTC)		[[User:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|Rivest–Shamir–Adleman]] ([[User talk:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|talk]]) 15:18, 17 July 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	:So, bit of good news and bad news. Bad news: we ''might'' have to put a pin in that merge indefinitely. Good news: it's because it turns out there's a lot more historical info to dig out in the source code of versions from [[Source:NetHack_3.0.0/objects.c\|NetHack 3.0.0]] to [[Source:NetHack_3.1.0/objects.c\|NetHack 3.1.0]]! And then there's between-individual-version changes, such as a bunch of material stuff already being present in 3.0.10 before 3.1 made any changes. I'm already working on updating this and the [[material]] article with what I've dug up so far. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 00:07, 18 July 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:18, 17 July 2026
Line 10:		Line 10:

	:I will say that a merge might honestly see less opposition if it was condensed ''properly'' into a history section for the materials page, assuming there isn't anything especially notable about it in terms of variants outside of what I noted above. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 01:30, 17 July 2026 (UTC)		:I will say that a merge might honestly see less opposition if it was condensed ''properly'' into a history section for the materials page, assuming there isn't anything especially notable about it in terms of variants outside of what I noted above. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 01:30, 17 July 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	Yeah so I fixed the templates now, and added example of Variant (EvilHack is the only variant I have compiled in ''localhost'' and whose source code I have immediate access). this whole undefined article is fully copied to base [[material]] article history section (redundant ofc)
		+	I fully understand your point about archiving and information on older versions of the game, and respect and support them. You are right, that this is more than just a Guidebook. I still refrain the right to personal opinion, that this page should be deleted because its obsolete.Thats just because we now have 5,693 articles, and I have an uncanny feeling, that somewhere between that, and 10k articles it becomes unmanageable. Altough, Dwarf Fortress Wiki currently has 10,138 articles, and I don't honestly know how she (Emi) manages that, but she is awesome. So anyway, I am probably wrong :)
		+	About the Variants, I mean I could playtest them more to see, but newest version of EviHack, for example has the object materials system, and had implemented 3.7 and has both crysknife and worm teeth as made of bone already. Few days ago mr. Simpson reported that he is working on full merge of 5.0.0 release and the wand of speed that is fabulous AI has speeded up the process so, that 30-40 % of the code is already done. So new version could be out sooner than we expect, altough this or other materials articles won't see any change from that. Worm teeth article is the last one I will touch now, pinky promise. You can keep the rest of materials for now Umbire I promise :) and thanks for tip about source playground Boss! I will head there (its probably good that I will familiarize myself with the wiki in safe contains of playground, being total newbie that I am :)
		+
		+	[[User:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|Rivest–Shamir–Adleman]] ([[User talk:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|talk]]) 15:18, 17 July 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:30, 17 July 2026
Line 8:		Line 8:

	None of this is being said with the mod cap on, just to be clear, but it's for those reasons I'm not sure there'll be much agreement that this needs deleting. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 00:05, 17 July 2026 (UTC)		None of this is being said with the mod cap on, just to be clear, but it's for those reasons I'm not sure there'll be much agreement that this needs deleting. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 00:05, 17 July 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	:I will say that a merge might honestly see less opposition if it was condensed ''properly'' into a history section for the materials page, assuming there isn't anything especially notable about it in terms of variants outside of what I noted above. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 01:30, 17 July 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:05, 17 July 2026
Line 2:		Line 2:
	Yours		Yours
	[[User:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|Rivest–Shamir–Adleman]] ([[User talk:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|talk]]) 23:42, 16 July 2026 (UTC)		[[User:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|Rivest–Shamir–Adleman]] ([[User talk:Rivest–Shamir–Adleman\|talk]]) 23:42, 16 July 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	:...being a bit overly formal now, I think--you might be over-correcting in the other direction slightly after our last convo. Also, you may wanna preview your edits before you save them if you can remember to, neither "Released" nor "Obsolete" are templates we have.
		+
		+	Anyway, it's probably worth keeping for historical purposes, the same as other pages covering stuff from older versions which I've been working on expanding—the wiki's for all things NetHack, and it's not like people immediately stop playing the old versions soon as a new one releases, else we wouldn't have the very-dedicated 343 playerbase or namespaces like the [[source code]]. (which frankly we've been slacking on annotating - should see about getting someone on that...) Additionally, there's still variants that don't incorporate the change to crysknives, whether from having been made and updated long before NetHack 5 or going in a different direction with how it utilizes certain elements.
		+
		+	None of this is being said with the mod cap on, just to be clear, but it's for those reasons I'm not sure there'll be much agreement that this needs deleting. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 00:05, 17 July 2026 (UTC)