Talk:Unwinnable - Revision history

Ion frigate: /* Condition 7 */

2012-04-17T04:28:35Z

‎Condition 7

Ion frigate: /* Condition 7 */

2012-04-17T04:27:37Z

‎Condition 7

Tjr: justification

2012-04-16T22:49:29Z

justification

Ion frigate at 19:24, 16 April 2012

2012-04-16T19:24:03Z

Qazmlpok: /* Importance */ Adding my opinion to a 3 year old comment.

2011-05-10T02:41:43Z

‎Importance: Adding my opinion to a 3 year old comment.

Tjr: /* Unlightable Candelabrum */ new section

2011-05-08T23:12:55Z

‎Unlightable Candelabrum: new section

Tjr: not unwinnable even if artifact keys destroyed and mind flayers genocided

2010-12-18T21:58:33Z

not unwinnable even if artifact keys destroyed and mind flayers genocided

Ndwolfwood at 21:39, 18 December 2010

2010-12-18T21:39:11Z

Ion frigate: /* SLASH'EM */

2010-05-10T03:02:31Z

‎SLASH'EM

Ion frigate: /* SLASH'EM */

2010-05-10T02:57:26Z

‎SLASH'EM

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:28, 17 April 2012
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	: (Should have replied before undoing.) If the ammy is trapped in the Quest, you don't need quest permission anymore. Therefore it's safe to convert yourself to neutral so you can wish up the Eye and branchport into the quest. Your leader will expel you just fine along with the Amulet. Of course, this assumes your artifact wishes don't fail and there is at least one neutral altar. There is a 74.31% chance of at least one neutral altar in the main dungeons and mine town, ignoring random temples, other special rooms, and bones. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 22:49, 16 April 2012 (UTC)		: (Should have replied before undoing.) If the ammy is trapped in the Quest, you don't need quest permission anymore. Therefore it's safe to convert yourself to neutral so you can wish up the Eye and branchport into the quest. Your leader will expel you just fine along with the Amulet. Of course, this assumes your artifact wishes don't fail and there is at least one neutral altar. There is a 74.31% chance of at least one neutral altar in the main dungeons and mine town, ignoring random temples, other special rooms, and bones. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 22:49, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

−	:: Oh, good point. I think it might still be worth mentioning, though - maybe something like "Exception: Wizard, neutral or able to convert to neutral." Given that people tend to convert altars in the early game, there probably are a decent proportion of games that have no neutral altar. And if there's currently no neutral altar in all of the main dungeon, there never will be one. It's not like the case of having not enough candles and no wishes, where you can just farm for more candles/wishes. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 04:27, 17 April 2012 (UTC)	+	:: Oh, good point. I think it might still be worth mentioning, though - maybe something like "Exception: Wizard, neutral or able to convert to neutral." Given that people tend to convert altars in the early game, there probably are a decent proportion of games that have no neutral altar. And if there's currently no neutral altar in all of the main dungeon, there never will be one. It's not like the case of having not enough candles and no wishes, where you can just farm for more candles/wishes, or even like chaotic/lawful altars, where a HoOA can make you able to convert it to the right alignment. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 04:27, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:27, 17 April 2012
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	: (Should have replied before undoing.) If the ammy is trapped in the Quest, you don't need quest permission anymore. Therefore it's safe to convert yourself to neutral so you can wish up the Eye and branchport into the quest. Your leader will expel you just fine along with the Amulet. Of course, this assumes your artifact wishes don't fail and there is at least one neutral altar. There is a 74.31% chance of at least one neutral altar in the main dungeons and mine town, ignoring random temples, other special rooms, and bones. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 22:49, 16 April 2012 (UTC)		: (Should have replied before undoing.) If the ammy is trapped in the Quest, you don't need quest permission anymore. Therefore it's safe to convert yourself to neutral so you can wish up the Eye and branchport into the quest. Your leader will expel you just fine along with the Amulet. Of course, this assumes your artifact wishes don't fail and there is at least one neutral altar. There is a 74.31% chance of at least one neutral altar in the main dungeons and mine town, ignoring random temples, other special rooms, and bones. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 22:49, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
		+
		+	:: Oh, good point. I think it might still be worth mentioning, though - maybe something like "Exception: Wizard, neutral or able to convert to neutral." Given that people tend to convert altars in the early game, there probably are a decent proportion of games that have no neutral altar. And if there's currently no neutral altar in all of the main dungeon, there never will be one. It's not like the case of having not enough candles and no wishes, where you can just farm for more candles/wishes. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 04:27, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:49, 16 April 2012
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	== Condition 7 ==		== Condition 7 ==
	Unless I'm mistaken, this requires you to have the Eye, meaning you have to be either neutral or a wizard. I think this is worth mentioning, so I'll go ahead and add it. Feel free to remove if I'm wrong. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 19:24, 16 April 2012 (UTC)		Unless I'm mistaken, this requires you to have the Eye, meaning you have to be either neutral or a wizard. I think this is worth mentioning, so I'll go ahead and add it. Feel free to remove if I'm wrong. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 19:24, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
		+
		+	: (Should have replied before undoing.) If the ammy is trapped in the Quest, you don't need quest permission anymore. Therefore it's safe to convert yourself to neutral so you can wish up the Eye and branchport into the quest. Your leader will expel you just fine along with the Amulet. Of course, this assumes your artifact wishes don't fail and there is at least one neutral altar. There is a 74.31% chance of at least one neutral altar in the main dungeons and mine town, ignoring random temples, other special rooms, and bones. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 22:49, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 19:24, 16 April 2012
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	The [[candelabrum]] can be made unlightable in a rare corner case. [[User:Qazmlpok]] put the details on [[Talk:Candelabrum_of_Invocation]]. Should this be mentioned here? --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 23:12, 8 May 2011 (UTC)		The [[candelabrum]] can be made unlightable in a rare corner case. [[User:Qazmlpok]] put the details on [[Talk:Candelabrum_of_Invocation]]. Should this be mentioned here? --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 23:12, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Condition 7 ==
		+	Unless I'm mistaken, this requires you to have the Eye, meaning you have to be either neutral or a wizard. I think this is worth mentioning, so I'll go ahead and add it. Feel free to remove if I'm wrong. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 19:24, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:41, 10 May 2011
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	:I'm quite sure that another guard will eventually enter the vault. Also, if you bury an item, you can dig it up later. The one about being invisible in a shop happened to me, once: I tried on a cloak and it was a cursed cloak of invisibility. It might be possible to close the door, kick it in, and either pay off the shopkeeper or run like hell; it depends on how fast the door gets repaired.--[[User:Ray Chason\|Ray Chason]] 23:27, 6 April 2008 (UTC)		:I'm quite sure that another guard will eventually enter the vault. Also, if you bury an item, you can dig it up later. The one about being invisible in a shop happened to me, once: I tried on a cloak and it was a cursed cloak of invisibility. It might be possible to close the door, kick it in, and either pay off the shopkeeper or run like hell; it depends on how fast the door gets repaired.--[[User:Ray Chason\|Ray Chason]] 23:27, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
		+	::Being locked in a shop with no escape doesn't make a game unwinnable, it simply makes it exceptionally difficult to win and you'll probably die soon. If you permanently change alignment before the quest, the game '''cannot''' be won. There is absolutely nothing that can be done, no great stroke of luck or brilliant strategy that will let you ascend. If you are locked in a shop you can kill the shopkeeper, or if you're lucky just teleport him away, dig out, break down the door and run like hell, etc. It's theoretically ''possible'' for a level 1 character to kill a shopkeeper, e.g. if it is randomly generated with a wand of death that misses you (twice) and kills the shopkeeper. If you find yourself stuck in a 2x2 room in minetown with no digging item it's still possible to escape by waiting for a randomly generated rockmole to take out the walls. -- [[User:Qazmlpok\|Qazmlpok]] 02:41, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

	== Ticking off your quest leader ==		== Ticking off your quest leader ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:12, 8 May 2011
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	Well you could always accidentally destroyed your key of chaos by putting a bag of holding into your wallet and have genocided "h" thankfully I was avoiding the lawful quest and I didn't put the key of neutrality in my wallet. Assuming I had would the game have been unwinnable?[[User:Ndwolfwood\|Ndwolfwood]] 21:39, 18 December 2010 (UTC)		Well you could always accidentally destroyed your key of chaos by putting a bag of holding into your wallet and have genocided "h" thankfully I was avoiding the lawful quest and I didn't put the key of neutrality in my wallet. Assuming I had would the game have been unwinnable?[[User:Ndwolfwood\|Ndwolfwood]] 21:39, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
	: No. If all else fails, you can lure the [[Wizard of Yendor]] into [[Vlad's Tower]]. He will attack Vlad, causing him to teleport to you. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 21:58, 18 December 2010 (UTC)		: No. If all else fails, you can lure the [[Wizard of Yendor]] into [[Vlad's Tower]]. He will attack Vlad, causing him to teleport to you. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 21:58, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Unlightable Candelabrum ==
		+
		+	The [[candelabrum]] can be made unlightable in a rare corner case. [[User:Qazmlpok]] put the details on [[Talk:Candelabrum_of_Invocation]]. Should this be mentioned here? --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] 23:12, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

@@ Line 26: / Line 26: @@
 :And another thing: locking any vital items behind the doors and destroying the keys doesn't work either.  To get around that, all you need to do is lure an appropriate covetous monster (the Wizard of Yendor works for the Amulet and the invocation items) into Vlad's Tower, and they will fetch the items for you.  So, in short, it doesn't seem like the unbreakable doors in Vlad's tower can make the game unwinnable. -[[User:Ion frigate|Ion frigate]] 03:02, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
+==Unwinnable by destroying the artifact keys==
-well you could always accidentally destroyed your key of chaos by putting a bag of holding into your wallet and have genocided "h" thankfully I was avoiding the lawful quest and I didn't put the key of neutrality in my wallet.  Assuming I had would the game have been unwinnable?[[User:Ndwolfwood|Ndwolfwood]] 21:39, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
+Well you could always accidentally destroyed your key of chaos by putting a bag of holding into your wallet and have genocided "h" thankfully I was avoiding the lawful quest and I didn't put the key of neutrality in my wallet.  Assuming I had would the game have been unwinnable?[[User:Ndwolfwood|Ndwolfwood]] 21:39, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:39, 18 December 2010
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	So I just tried this out in wizard mode. You don't actually need the alignment keys to get the Candelabrum; if you don't have them, you can still wake up Vlad with a mind flayer's psychic blast, and when he teleports to meet you he will have the Candelabrum. You don't need an alignment key to open the door next to the down staircase, so he'll have space to meet you. Given that this article doesn't mention a lot of other situations that make the game seemingly impossible to win but in fact have obscure/difficult solutions, such losing the Amulet in water or lava, having one of the invocation items stolen, etc, I'm thinking it might be better to just remove that section altogether if nobody objects. For now I've just rewritten it, but do people think it should be removed? -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 02:53, May 10, 2010 (UTC)		So I just tried this out in wizard mode. You don't actually need the alignment keys to get the Candelabrum; if you don't have them, you can still wake up Vlad with a mind flayer's psychic blast, and when he teleports to meet you he will have the Candelabrum. You don't need an alignment key to open the door next to the down staircase, so he'll have space to meet you. Given that this article doesn't mention a lot of other situations that make the game seemingly impossible to win but in fact have obscure/difficult solutions, such losing the Amulet in water or lava, having one of the invocation items stolen, etc, I'm thinking it might be better to just remove that section altogether if nobody objects. For now I've just rewritten it, but do people think it should be removed? -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 02:53, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
	:And another thing: locking any vital items behind the doors and destroying the keys doesn't work either. To get around that, all you need to do is lure an appropriate covetous monster (the Wizard of Yendor works for the Amulet and the invocation items) into Vlad's Tower, and they will fetch the items for you. So, in short, it doesn't seem like the unbreakable doors in Vlad's tower can make the game unwinnable. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 03:02, May 10, 2010 (UTC)		:And another thing: locking any vital items behind the doors and destroying the keys doesn't work either. To get around that, all you need to do is lure an appropriate covetous monster (the Wizard of Yendor works for the Amulet and the invocation items) into Vlad's Tower, and they will fetch the items for you. So, in short, it doesn't seem like the unbreakable doors in Vlad's tower can make the game unwinnable. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 03:02, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
		+
		+
		+	well you could always accidentally destroyed your key of chaos by putting a bag of holding into your wallet and have genocided "h" thankfully I was avoiding the lawful quest and I didn't put the key of neutrality in my wallet. Assuming I had would the game have been unwinnable?[[User:Ndwolfwood\|Ndwolfwood]] 21:39, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 03:02, 10 May 2010
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	==SLASH'EM==		==SLASH'EM==
	So I just tried this out in wizard mode. You don't actually need the alignment keys to get the Candelabrum; if you don't have them, you can still wake up Vlad with a mind flayer's psychic blast, and when he teleports to meet you he will have the Candelabrum. You don't need an alignment key to open the door next to the down staircase, so he'll have space to meet you. Given that this article doesn't mention a lot of other situations that make the game seemingly impossible to win but in fact have obscure/difficult solutions, such losing the Amulet in water or lava, having one of the invocation items stolen, etc, I'm thinking it might be better to just remove that section altogether if nobody objects. For now I've just rewritten it, but do people think it should be removed? -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 02:53, May 10, 2010 (UTC)		So I just tried this out in wizard mode. You don't actually need the alignment keys to get the Candelabrum; if you don't have them, you can still wake up Vlad with a mind flayer's psychic blast, and when he teleports to meet you he will have the Candelabrum. You don't need an alignment key to open the door next to the down staircase, so he'll have space to meet you. Given that this article doesn't mention a lot of other situations that make the game seemingly impossible to win but in fact have obscure/difficult solutions, such losing the Amulet in water or lava, having one of the invocation items stolen, etc, I'm thinking it might be better to just remove that section altogether if nobody objects. For now I've just rewritten it, but do people think it should be removed? -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 02:53, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
		+	:And another thing: locking any vital items behind the doors and destroying the keys doesn't work either. To get around that, all you need to do is lure an appropriate covetous monster (the Wizard of Yendor works for the Amulet and the invocation items) into Vlad's Tower, and they will fetch the items for you. So, in short, it doesn't seem like the unbreakable doors in Vlad's tower can make the game unwinnable. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 03:02, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:57, 10 May 2010
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	==SLASH'EM==		==SLASH'EM==
−	So I just tried this out in wizard mode. You don't actually need the alignment keys to get the Candelabrum; if you don't have them, you can still wake up Vlad with a mind flayer's psychic blast, and when he teleports to meet you he will have the Candelabrum. You don't need an alignment key to open the door next to the down staircase, so he'll have space to meet you. Given that this article doesn't mention a lot of other situations that make the game seemingly impossible to win but in fact have obscure/difficult solutions, such losing the Amulet in water or lava, having one of the invocation items stolen, etc, I'm thinking it might be better to just remove that section altogether if nobody objects. -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 02:53, May 10, 2010 (UTC)	+	So I just tried this out in wizard mode. You don't actually need the alignment keys to get the Candelabrum; if you don't have them, you can still wake up Vlad with a mind flayer's psychic blast, and when he teleports to meet you he will have the Candelabrum. You don't need an alignment key to open the door next to the down staircase, so he'll have space to meet you. Given that this article doesn't mention a lot of other situations that make the game seemingly impossible to win but in fact have obscure/difficult solutions, such losing the Amulet in water or lava, having one of the invocation items stolen, etc, I'm thinking it might be better to just remove that section altogether if nobody objects. For now I've just rewritten it, but do people think it should be removed? -[[User:Ion frigate\|Ion frigate]] 02:53, May 10, 2010 (UTC)