Talk:Wizard of Yendor - Revision history

Furey: /* Rodney escaping the dungeon. */ 4 years later: yes, driving off rodney is a reliable way of preventing his re-appearance.

2024-06-13T02:42:17Z

‎Rodney escaping the dungeon.: 4 years later: yes, driving off rodney is a reliable way of preventing his re-appearance.

Testbutt: /* Article layout */

2020-08-31T18:07:18Z

‎Article layout

Darth l33t: /* Article layout */ new section

2020-08-31T16:06:55Z

‎Article layout: new section

Davek: /* Polymorphing the Wizard */

2019-09-11T18:17:38Z

‎Polymorphing the Wizard

Davek: /* Polymorphing the Wizard */

2019-09-11T17:53:26Z

‎Polymorphing the Wizard

Davek: /* Rodney escaping the dungeon. */ new section

2019-07-19T01:31:01Z

‎Rodney escaping the dungeon.: new section

Tjr at 20:24, 7 November 2013

2013-11-07T20:24:44Z

24.153.238.56 at 23:52, 5 November 2013

2013-11-05T23:52:38Z

Bcode: /* Abuse of Wizard Mode */ it seems to work only if the wizard is on your current level; also, I don't think this is abuse of wizard mode

2013-11-05T21:41:24Z

‎Abuse of Wizard Mode: it seems to work only if the wizard is on your current level; also, I don't think this is abuse of wizard mode

24.153.238.56 at 21:24, 5 November 2013

2013-11-05T21:24:06Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:42, 13 June 2024
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	I hung around on dlvl 1 for a while just to give Rodney a beating before going to the planes. After a while, he showed up, cast Double Trouble, and then fled to the upstair. I gave him a beating, and then he escaped the dungeon completely, leaving his double behind. After that, I never saw the wizard again, not even when I first entered the Plane of Earth (though other harassment continued). Was I just lucky, or is this a reliable way of avoiding his appearance on the planes? --[[User:Davek\|Davek]] ([[User talk:Davek\|talk]])		I hung around on dlvl 1 for a while just to give Rodney a beating before going to the planes. After a while, he showed up, cast Double Trouble, and then fled to the upstair. I gave him a beating, and then he escaped the dungeon completely, leaving his double behind. After that, I never saw the wizard again, not even when I first entered the Plane of Earth (though other harassment continued). Was I just lucky, or is this a reliable way of avoiding his appearance on the planes? --[[User:Davek\|Davek]] ([[User talk:Davek\|talk]])
		+
		+	: It is, in fact, a reliable way of preventing his appearance for the rest of the game. And this info has finally made it into the article! [[User:Furey\|Furey]] ([[User talk:Furey\|talk]]) 02:41, 13 June 2024 (UTC)

	== Article layout ==		== Article layout ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:07, 31 August 2020
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	The article was recently edited to place the Strategy section above the Harassment section. I think that in general, objective information about game mechanics should precede subjective strategies. A player who's having trouble understanding the Wizard will probably first want to understand how he works and what he can do, in order to figure out how to deal with him on their own. If they still have difficulty, they can read further down the article to learn what has worked for other players. Putting the strategy before mechanics will lead a player to spoil themselves without ever having a chance to figure out their own strategy. --[[User:Darth l33t\|Darth l33t]] ([[User talk:Darth l33t\|talk]]) 16:06, 31 August 2020 (UTC)		The article was recently edited to place the Strategy section above the Harassment section. I think that in general, objective information about game mechanics should precede subjective strategies. A player who's having trouble understanding the Wizard will probably first want to understand how he works and what he can do, in order to figure out how to deal with him on their own. If they still have difficulty, they can read further down the article to learn what has worked for other players. Putting the strategy before mechanics will lead a player to spoil themselves without ever having a chance to figure out their own strategy. --[[User:Darth l33t\|Darth l33t]] ([[User talk:Darth l33t\|talk]]) 16:06, 31 August 2020 (UTC)
		+	: Agreed, hard info before soft info. --[[User:Testbutt\|Testbutt]] ([[User talk:Testbutt\|talk]]) 18:07, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:06, 31 August 2020
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	I hung around on dlvl 1 for a while just to give Rodney a beating before going to the planes. After a while, he showed up, cast Double Trouble, and then fled to the upstair. I gave him a beating, and then he escaped the dungeon completely, leaving his double behind. After that, I never saw the wizard again, not even when I first entered the Plane of Earth (though other harassment continued). Was I just lucky, or is this a reliable way of avoiding his appearance on the planes? --[[User:Davek\|Davek]] ([[User talk:Davek\|talk]])		I hung around on dlvl 1 for a while just to give Rodney a beating before going to the planes. After a while, he showed up, cast Double Trouble, and then fled to the upstair. I gave him a beating, and then he escaped the dungeon completely, leaving his double behind. After that, I never saw the wizard again, not even when I first entered the Plane of Earth (though other harassment continued). Was I just lucky, or is this a reliable way of avoiding his appearance on the planes? --[[User:Davek\|Davek]] ([[User talk:Davek\|talk]])
		+
		+	== Article layout ==
		+
		+	The article was recently edited to place the Strategy section above the Harassment section. I think that in general, objective information about game mechanics should precede subjective strategies. A player who's having trouble understanding the Wizard will probably first want to understand how he works and what he can do, in order to figure out how to deal with him on their own. If they still have difficulty, they can read further down the article to learn what has worked for other players. Putting the strategy before mechanics will lead a player to spoil themselves without ever having a chance to figure out their own strategy. --[[User:Darth l33t\|Darth l33t]] ([[User talk:Darth l33t\|talk]]) 16:06, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

@@ Line 46: / Line 46: @@
 :It probably should be put into it's own section somewhere. The article is surprisingly short for how important the wizard is to the game. I stuck it in the intro since I didn't see any close to an existing section, and plenty of other miscellany was put into that intro as well. I also didn't expect to find as many different ways to pacify the wizard. This is definitely a bit of trivia; the amount of effort needed to leveldrain the wizard AND polymorph him into a pacifyable form is quite high, so it's not really a strategy someone could use to avoid fighting the wizard. Except of course in SLASH'EM, where all you need to do is polymorph into a genetic engineer and smack him with a potion of amnesia. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:54, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 : I managed to get the WoY down to level 0 with -3 Stormbringer.  The key was to NOT use the Gauntlets of Power, because you will always end up killing him around level 2 or 3.  Then, it took about 10 zaps of a wand of polymorph to get him to change form.  Now, I'm wandering around the dungeon, and every now and then a Red Naga called "WoY" will say "So thou thought thou couldst elude me, fool."  We'll see how long this lasts. ——[[User:Davek|Davek]] ([[User talk:Davek|talk]]) 17:53, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
 == Polyself fighting form ==

@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 :I'm not sure. It's strange, but while I was testing these methods in wizard mode I'm fairly certain that the wizard was "reviving" while he was on the same level. I did notice him using the "So you thought you could elude me" message multiple times while I was resting for several thousand turns. The code looks like it checks for whether or not the wizard is on the same level (loops over migrating_mons, 'elapsed = monstermoves - mtmp->mlstmv' > 0L check), but I'm not an expert on how the migration code works so I could be misreading it, and misinterpreting the wizard mode results.
 :It probably should be put into it's own section somewhere. The article is surprisingly short for how important the wizard is to the game. I stuck it in the intro since I didn't see any close to an existing section, and plenty of other miscellany was put into that intro as well. I also didn't expect to find as many different ways to pacify the wizard. This is definitely a bit of trivia; the amount of effort needed to leveldrain the wizard AND polymorph him into a pacifyable form is quite high, so it's not really a strategy someone could use to avoid fighting the wizard. Except of course in SLASH'EM, where all you need to do is polymorph into a genetic engineer and smack him with a potion of amnesia. -- [[User:Qazmlpok|Qazmlpok]] 23:54, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
 == Polyself fighting form ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:31, 19 July 2019
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	:::I'd not include it in the article. BTW, there is a second way to get rid of the Wizard: enter the Astral Plane. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr\|talk]]) 20:24, 7 November 2013 (UTC)		:::I'd not include it in the article. BTW, there is a second way to get rid of the Wizard: enter the Astral Plane. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr\|talk]]) 20:24, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Rodney escaping the dungeon. ==
		+
		+	I hung around on dlvl 1 for a while just to give Rodney a beating before going to the planes. After a while, he showed up, cast Double Trouble, and then fled to the upstair. I gave him a beating, and then he escaped the dungeon completely, leaving his double behind. After that, I never saw the wizard again, not even when I first entered the Plane of Earth (though other harassment continued). Was I just lucky, or is this a reliable way of avoiding his appearance on the planes? --[[User:Davek\|Davek]] ([[User talk:Davek\|talk]])

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:24, 7 November 2013
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	:I don't see how this is "abuse" of [[wizard mode]] or "cheating", though. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 21:41, 5 November 2013 (UTC)		:I don't see how this is "abuse" of [[wizard mode]] or "cheating", though. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 21:41, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
	::As I guessed. It would seem notable to me that this would pretty much be the only way to get rid of the Wizard with any degree of permanence save level-draining him to render him spell-less. Given this method's only possible in Wizard Mode, anyone feel that it's worth mention in the main article? Or would be best saved for the page on Wizard Mode, if at all? --[[Special:Contributions/24.153.238.56\|24.153.238.56]] 23:52, 5 November 2013 (UTC)		::As I guessed. It would seem notable to me that this would pretty much be the only way to get rid of the Wizard with any degree of permanence save level-draining him to render him spell-less. Given this method's only possible in Wizard Mode, anyone feel that it's worth mention in the main article? Or would be best saved for the page on Wizard Mode, if at all? --[[Special:Contributions/24.153.238.56\|24.153.238.56]] 23:52, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
		+
		+	:::I'd not include it in the article. BTW, there is a second way to get rid of the Wizard: enter the Astral Plane. --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr\|talk]]) 20:24, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:52, 5 November 2013
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	:Testing this seems to indicate the game will summon the wizard to your level and make him hostile again if you left him on another level while you're safe from reappearances (but not the other harassment effects) if the Wizard is on your level.		:Testing this seems to indicate the game will summon the wizard to your level and make him hostile again if you left him on another level while you're safe from reappearances (but not the other harassment effects) if the Wizard is on your level.
	:I don't see how this is "abuse" of [[wizard mode]] or "cheating", though. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 21:41, 5 November 2013 (UTC)		:I don't see how this is "abuse" of [[wizard mode]] or "cheating", though. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 21:41, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
		+	::As I guessed. It would seem notable to me that this would pretty much be the only way to get rid of the Wizard with any degree of permanence save level-draining him to render him spell-less. Given this method's only possible in Wizard Mode, anyone feel that it's worth mention in the main article? Or would be best saved for the page on Wizard Mode, if at all? --[[Special:Contributions/24.153.238.56\|24.153.238.56]] 23:52, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:41, 5 November 2013
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	Having noted that Wizard Mode enables to to create monsters of any sort, and specify them as tame, can you cheat your way out of being harassed by conjuring up a tame Wizard of Yendor and keeping him alive? Or will the game count him as the double instead? Or will the game bug out and ignore the existence of a tamed Wizard when deciding to respawn him? --[[Special:Contributions/24.153.238.56\|24.153.238.56]] 21:24, 5 November 2013 (UTC)		Having noted that Wizard Mode enables to to create monsters of any sort, and specify them as tame, can you cheat your way out of being harassed by conjuring up a tame Wizard of Yendor and keeping him alive? Or will the game count him as the double instead? Or will the game bug out and ignore the existence of a tamed Wizard when deciding to respawn him? --[[Special:Contributions/24.153.238.56\|24.153.238.56]] 21:24, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
		+
		+	:Testing this seems to indicate the game will summon the wizard to your level and make him hostile again if you left him on another level while you're safe from reappearances (but not the other harassment effects) if the Wizard is on your level.
		+	:I don't see how this is "abuse" of [[wizard mode]] or "cheating", though. —[[User:bcode\|bcode]] <sup>[[User talk:bcode\|talk]] \| [[Special:EmailUser/Bcode\|mail]]</sup> 21:41, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:24, 5 November 2013
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	: It seem to be because: Rodney doesn't start with the Book in inventory --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr\|talk]]) 21:56, 25 May 2013 (UTC)		: It seem to be because: Rodney doesn't start with the Book in inventory --[[User:Tjr\|Tjr]] ([[User talk:Tjr\|talk]]) 21:56, 25 May 2013 (UTC)
	::Strange. According to [[Source:NetHack 3.4.3/src/wizard.c]] line 363 ff covetous monsters should be able to approach monsters who are standing on the coveted item. There is however nothing about actually attacking this monster but this could maybe handled with confusion or conflict. - [[Special:Contributions/79.210.10.215\|79.210.10.215]] 20:01, 28 August 2013 (UTC)		::Strange. According to [[Source:NetHack 3.4.3/src/wizard.c]] line 363 ff covetous monsters should be able to approach monsters who are standing on the coveted item. There is however nothing about actually attacking this monster but this could maybe handled with confusion or conflict. - [[Special:Contributions/79.210.10.215\|79.210.10.215]] 20:01, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Abuse of Wizard Mode ==
		+
		+	Having noted that Wizard Mode enables to to create monsters of any sort, and specify them as tame, can you cheat your way out of being harassed by conjuring up a tame Wizard of Yendor and keeping him alive? Or will the game count him as the double instead? Or will the game bug out and ignore the existence of a tamed Wizard when deciding to respawn him? --[[Special:Contributions/24.153.238.56\|24.153.238.56]] 21:24, 5 November 2013 (UTC)