Talk:XNetHack - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom: /* Thoughts on mithril-coats */ pothole

2023-11-22T08:23:06Z

‎Thoughts on mithril-coats: pothole

Kahran042 at 17:37, 9 August 2022

2022-08-09T17:37:13Z

Actual-nh: /* Orc shaman page re telepathy: All spellcasting monsters or gnomish wizards, kobold shamans, and orc shamans in particular? */ new section

2021-09-09T01:19:20Z

‎Orc shaman page re telepathy: All spellcasting monsters or gnomish wizards, kobold shamans, and orc shamans in particular?: new section

Umbire the Phantom: /* Small vs elven shields for casters */

2021-04-27T22:34:50Z

‎Small vs elven shields for casters

Actual-nh: /* Small vs elven shields for casters */ Typo

2021-04-27T22:32:46Z

‎Small vs elven shields for casters: Typo

Actual-nh: /* Small vs elven shields for casters */ Elven weapons - not shields - and small shields could also become metallic

2021-04-27T22:32:03Z

‎Small vs elven shields for casters: Elven weapons - not shields - and small shields could also become metallic

Umbire the Phantom: /* Small vs elven shields for casters */

2021-04-27T22:22:27Z

‎Small vs elven shields for casters

Actual-nh: /* Small vs elven shields for casters */ RL shields were mostly wood!

2021-04-27T21:27:38Z

‎Small vs elven shields for casters: RL shields were mostly wood!

Actual-nh: /* Small vs elven shields for casters */ Checked source code - elven shields are still wood in xNetHack

2021-04-27T21:24:19Z

‎Small vs elven shields for casters: Checked source code - elven shields are still wood in xNetHack

Umbire the Phantom: /* Small vs elven shields for casters */

2021-04-27T20:56:42Z

‎Small vs elven shields for casters

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 Hi!  I was reading through xNetHack's change list, and upon you mentioning remaking [[mithril-coat]]s I was struck with an idea: why not just make 'elven' and 'dwarven' into another kind of object properties, like material?
-It generalizes pretty well: [[elves]] start with ''elven'' items.  Those can be enchanted to +7, don't get penalties from being made from wood (as opposed to iron) <ref>Or you could make a special "ironwood" material which combines wood and iron properties.  That would be more lore-accurate.</ref>, and elven weapons get a d(+1) against small creatures (e.g. d5 instead of d4, like [[elven dagger]]s).  [[Orcs]] start with ''crude'' items, which get d(-1) against small creatures and -1 to AC.  [[Dwarves]] start with ''masterwork'' items.  Masterwork armor gets +1 AC.  With weapons it's trickier: [[dwarvish short sword]]s get d(+1), and [[dwarven spear]]s get d(+2).  And DnD masterwork weapons just act as +1 that doesn't stack with enchantment.  <ref>Because all enchanted weapons are assumed to be masterwork by default.</ref>  +1 seems the most appropiate to me, but anything works.
+It generalizes pretty well: [[elves]] start with ''elven'' items.  Those can be enchanted to +7, don't get penalties from being made from wood (as opposed to iron) <ref>Or you could make a special "ironwood" material which combines wood and iron properties.  That would be more lore-accurate.</ref>, and elven weapons get a d(+1) against small creatures (e.g. d5 instead of d4, like [[elven dagger]]s).  [[Orcs]] start with ''crude'' items, which get d(-1) against small creatures and -1 to AC.  [[Dwarf (monster attribute)|Dwarves]] start with ''masterwork'' items.  Masterwork armor gets +1 AC.  With weapons it's trickier: [[dwarvish short sword]]s get d(+1), and [[dwarven spear]]s get d(+2).  And DnD masterwork weapons just act as +1 that doesn't stack with enchantment.  <ref>Because all enchanted weapons are assumed to be masterwork by default.</ref>  +1 seems the most appropiate to me, but anything works.
 Most racial items fit rather well with this mechanic, with exceptions for [[elven short sword]]s which are d(+2) and dwarven weapons, which are inconsistent as mentioned before.  As for mithril-coats, it works perfectly: EMC are ''elven'', ''mithril'' ring mails which thus get +1 AC and can be enchanted to +7; DMC are ''masterwork'' ''mithril'' ring mails and thus get +2 AC but no enchantment bonus.  Although if you want to keep them as MC3, you will need to tweak mithril material properties.

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:37, 9 August 2022
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	This page says "Gnomish wizards, kobold shamans, and orc shamans" have telepathy, but says nothing about other spellcasting monsters. The [[orc shaman]] page says that all spellcasting monsters in xNetHack have telepathy. Which is correct? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 01:19, 9 September 2021 (UTC)		This page says "Gnomish wizards, kobold shamans, and orc shamans" have telepathy, but says nothing about other spellcasting monsters. The [[orc shaman]] page says that all spellcasting monsters in xNetHack have telepathy. Which is correct? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 01:19, 9 September 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	==Quest overhaul idea==
		+
		+	Maybe you could reinstate Master Kaen's backstory from NetHack Plus. If you don't know it, I have it in my user page here: https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/User:Kahran042#Master_Kaen.27s_backstory_from_NetHack_Plus --[[User:Kahran042\|Kahran042]] ([[User talk:Kahran042\|talk]]) 17:37, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:19, 9 September 2021
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	:::: Does oc_bulky have any beneficial effects? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 20:40, 27 April 2021 (UTC)		:::: Does oc_bulky have any beneficial effects? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 20:40, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Orc shaman page re telepathy: All spellcasting monsters or gnomish wizards, kobold shamans, and orc shamans in particular? ==
		+
		+	This page says "Gnomish wizards, kobold shamans, and orc shamans" have telepathy, but says nothing about other spellcasting monsters. The [[orc shaman]] page says that all spellcasting monsters in xNetHack have telepathy. Which is correct? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 01:19, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:34, 27 April 2021
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	::::::::Actually, it states that most elven ''weapons'' are changed from wood to copper (probably because of the damage penalty for wood). -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:31, 27 April 2021 (UTC)		::::::::Actually, it states that most elven ''weapons'' are changed from wood to copper (probably because of the damage penalty for wood). -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 22:31, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	:::::::What I'm referring to is that elven priests start with maces, whose base material is normally iron - their maces are made copper to avoid burning them (especially since elven priests are rather squishly to begin with). --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 22:34, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

	:::::::I just checked the source code - elven shields are still wood in xNetHack (at least as of the latest master on GitHub). -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 21:23, 27 April 2021 (UTC)		:::::::I just checked the source code - elven shields are still wood in xNetHack (at least as of the latest master on GitHub). -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 21:23, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

@@ Line 64: / Line 64: @@
 :::::The article itself states outright that most elven items are now copper rather than wood, and many iron items that elves would start with are changed to copper instead. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 20:56, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
-:::::::Actually, it states that most elven ''weapons'' are changed from wood to copper (probably because of the damage penalty for wood). -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 22:31, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
+::::::::Actually, it states that most elven ''weapons'' are changed from wood to copper (probably because of the damage penalty for wood). -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 22:31, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 :::::::I just checked the source code - elven shields are still wood in xNetHack (at least as of the latest master on GitHub). -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 21:23, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

@@ Line 63: / Line 63: @@
 :::::The article itself states outright that most elven items are now copper rather than wood, and many iron items that elves would start with are changed to copper instead. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 20:56, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 :::::::I just checked the source code - elven shields are still wood in xNetHack (at least as of the latest master on GitHub). -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 21:23, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 :::::::I just realized also - IRL, most shields were wood! -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 21:27, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 ::::::I was speaking under the assumption that you were already aware of object materials - seems that wasn't the case, but in any event spellcasting should be written with the fact that different armor can be different materials (base and otherwise) well in mind. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 22:22, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 :: Noted/clarified, thank you. BTW, why are [[Uruk-hai shield]]s but not [[orcish shield]]s bulky? Is there a stats difference between them in xNetHack? -[[User:Actual-nh|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh|talk]]) 14:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:22, 27 April 2021
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	:::::::I just realized also - IRL, most shields were wood! -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 21:27, 27 April 2021 (UTC)		:::::::I just realized also - IRL, most shields were wood! -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 21:27, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
		+	::::::I was speaking under the assumption that you were already aware of object materials - seems that wasn't the case, but in any event spellcasting should be written with the fact that different armor can be different materials (base and otherwise) well in mind. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 22:22, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

	:: Noted/clarified, thank you. BTW, why are [[Uruk-hai shield]]s but not [[orcish shield]]s bulky? Is there a stats difference between them in xNetHack? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 14:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)		:: Noted/clarified, thank you. BTW, why are [[Uruk-hai shield]]s but not [[orcish shield]]s bulky? Is there a stats difference between them in xNetHack? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 14:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:27, 27 April 2021
Line 65:		Line 65:

	:::::::I just checked the source code - elven shields are still wood in xNetHack (at least as of the latest master on GitHub). -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 21:23, 27 April 2021 (UTC)		:::::::I just checked the source code - elven shields are still wood in xNetHack (at least as of the latest master on GitHub). -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 21:23, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	:::::::I just realized also - IRL, most shields were wood! -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 21:27, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

	:: Noted/clarified, thank you. BTW, why are [[Uruk-hai shield]]s but not [[orcish shield]]s bulky? Is there a stats difference between them in xNetHack? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 14:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)		:: Noted/clarified, thank you. BTW, why are [[Uruk-hai shield]]s but not [[orcish shield]]s bulky? Is there a stats difference between them in xNetHack? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 14:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:24, 27 April 2021
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	:::::The article itself states outright that most elven items are now copper rather than wood, and many iron items that elves would start with are changed to copper instead. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 20:56, 27 April 2021 (UTC)		:::::The article itself states outright that most elven items are now copper rather than wood, and many iron items that elves would start with are changed to copper instead. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 20:56, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	:::::::I just checked the source code - elven shields are still wood in xNetHack (at least as of the latest master on GitHub). -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 21:23, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

	:: Noted/clarified, thank you. BTW, why are [[Uruk-hai shield]]s but not [[orcish shield]]s bulky? Is there a stats difference between them in xNetHack? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 14:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)		:: Noted/clarified, thank you. BTW, why are [[Uruk-hai shield]]s but not [[orcish shield]]s bulky? Is there a stats difference between them in xNetHack? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 14:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:56, 27 April 2021
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	::::Good point (unless Phol ende wodan says otherwise, of course!) I will remove the note/clarification, then. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 20:40, 27 April 2021 (UTC)		::::Good point (unless Phol ende wodan says otherwise, of course!) I will remove the note/clarification, then. -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 20:40, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
		+
		+	:::::The article itself states outright that most elven items are now copper rather than wood, and many iron items that elves would start with are changed to copper instead. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 20:56, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

	:: Noted/clarified, thank you. BTW, why are [[Uruk-hai shield]]s but not [[orcish shield]]s bulky? Is there a stats difference between them in xNetHack? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 14:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)		:: Noted/clarified, thank you. BTW, why are [[Uruk-hai shield]]s but not [[orcish shield]]s bulky? Is there a stats difference between them in xNetHack? -[[User:Actual-nh\|Actual-nh]] ([[User talk:Actual-nh\|talk]]) 14:51, 26 April 2021 (UTC)