Unwinnable - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom: some tidying up

2026-06-24T09:15:41Z

some tidying up

Ray Chason: Reference to 3.1 source about no conversion check

2026-06-24T00:44:24Z

Reference to 3.1 source about no conversion check

Ray Chason: /* Quest failure (3.1.0 to 3.6.7) */ 3.1 does not bar converted heroes from the Quest

2026-06-24T00:14:16Z

‎Quest failure (3.1.0 to 3.6.7): 3.1 does not bar converted heroes from the Quest

Darth l33t: 5.0.0 update

2026-06-22T02:14:52Z

5.0.0 update

Umbire the Phantom: needs copyedit across the board, but can just do it like so

2025-05-10T20:10:17Z

needs copyedit across the board, but can just do it like so

Ion frigate: better wording; i'm tempted to link "requiring" to autocurse but i gather we're avoiding that type of wikilink

2025-05-10T09:06:08Z

better wording; i'm tempted to link "requiring" to autocurse but i gather we're avoiding that type of wikilink

Ion frigate: it's always necessary; feel like it'd be too wordy (and not overly relevant) to link autocurse here, but remove unnecessary qualifier

2025-05-10T09:04:44Z

it's always necessary; feel like it'd be too wordy (and not overly relevant) to link autocurse here, but remove unnecessary qualifier

Umbire the Phantom: /* Dead quest leader */ upcoming fix

2025-04-20T20:55:32Z

‎Dead quest leader: upcoming fix

Ion frigate: the strippers, JFK and Nixon (yeah, not actually an oxford comma, but similar)

2025-04-11T08:02:06Z

the strippers, JFK and Nixon (yeah, not actually an oxford comma, but similar)

Umbire the Phantom: adjust wording

2025-04-11T08:00:52Z

adjust wording

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-While any given game of ''[[NetHack]]'' may be very difficult to complete, it is generally understood that every game is winnable — that is, no game is created that the player cannot win.
+While any given game of ''[[NetHack]]'' may be very difficult to complete, it is generally understood that every game is winnable — that is, no game is created that the player cannot win. In prior versions, a game could become unwinnable by design if the [[hero]] was unable to begin or proceed on the [[Quest]]; other unwinnable conditions were the result of [[software bug]]s which have been fixed in the current version. As of [[NetHack 5.0.0]], every game should be winnable, and any unwinnable states remaining are bugs.
-As of [[NetHack 5.0.0]], every game should be winnable -- any unwinnable states remaining are [[software bug|bug]]s. In prior versions, a game could become unwinnable by design if the [[hero]] was unable to begin or proceed on the [[Quest]]; other unwinnable conditions were the result of bugs which have been fixed in the current version. The known unwinnable states in previous versions are:
+The known unwinnable states in previous versions are listed in the sections below, with the applicable versions noted.
 == Quest failure (3.1.0 to 3.6.7) ==
-Every character must complete the Quest to obtain the [[Bell of Opening]], needed to perform the [[Invocation]]. There were several ways that this could become impossible:
+* From [[NetHack 3.2.0]] to NetHack 3.6.7, if the hero [[sacrifice]]s at an [[altar]] in a way that causes them to permanently [[convert]] their own [[alignment]], they can no longer receive permission to begin the Quest, and a [[helm of opposite alignment]] will not fool the [[quest leader]].
+** Versions from [[NetHack 3.1.0]] to [[NetHack 3.1.3]] will only check if the hero is piously aligned with no regard for their current alignment.{{refsrc|quest.c|147|version=NetHack 3.1.0}}
 * Before permission, the Quest leader dies or [[levelport]]s down. Due to a bug, a Quest leader revived from a corpse or statue cannot grant access to the Quest.
 * Before permission, getting expelled by angering the quest leader or failing the [[alignment record|alignment]] test seven times. The Quest portal is removed, but with [[the Eye of the Aethiopica]] it's possible to access the Quest branch, pacify the Quest leader, and seek permission again. Not every character can get access to the Eye, however.

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 * (3.2.0 to 3.6.7 only) Before getting permission from the quest leader or proceeding down afterward, [[Altar#Danger in sacrificing|convert your alignment]] at an [[altar]]. You can no longer receive permission to begin the Quest, and a [[helm of opposite alignment]] will not fool the [[Quest leader]].
-** NetHack 3.1 does not check for change of alignment, only for whether you're piously aligned.
+** NetHack 3.1 does not check for change of alignment, only for whether you're piously aligned.{{refsrc|quest.c|147|version=NetHack 3.1.0}}
 * Before permission, the Quest leader dies or [[levelport]]s down. Due to a bug, a Quest leader revived from a corpse or statue cannot grant access to the Quest.
 * Before permission, getting expelled by angering the quest leader or failing the [[alignment record|alignment]] test seven times. The Quest portal is removed, but with [[the Eye of the Aethiopica]] it's possible to access the Quest branch, pacify the Quest leader, and seek permission again. Not every character can get access to the Eye, however.
@@ Line 43: / Line 43: @@
 ===dNetHack===
 One of the artifacts, [[The Silver Key]], can be used to perform the Invocation instead of the [[Bell of Opening]]. This lets the game become winnable even if blocked from the quest.
 {{nethack-500}}
 [[Category:Strategy]]

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 Every character must complete the Quest to obtain the [[Bell of Opening]], needed to perform the [[Invocation]]. There were several ways that this could become impossible:
-* Before getting permission from the quest leader or proceeding down afterward, [[Altar#Danger in sacrificing|convert your alignment]] at an [[altar]]. You can no longer receive permission to begin the Quest, and a [[helm of opposite alignment]] will not fool the [[Quest leader]].
+* (3.2.0 to 3.6.7 only) Before getting permission from the quest leader or proceeding down afterward, [[Altar#Danger in sacrificing|convert your alignment]] at an [[altar]]. You can no longer receive permission to begin the Quest, and a [[helm of opposite alignment]] will not fool the [[Quest leader]].
 * Before permission, the Quest leader dies or [[levelport]]s down. Due to a bug, a Quest leader revived from a corpse or statue cannot grant access to the Quest.
 * Before permission, getting expelled by angering the quest leader or failing the [[alignment record|alignment]] test seven times. The Quest portal is removed, but with [[the Eye of the Aethiopica]] it's possible to access the Quest branch, pacify the Quest leader, and seek permission again. Not every character can get access to the Eye, however.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 While any given game of ''[[NetHack]]'' may be very difficult to complete, it is generally understood that every game is winnable — that is, no game is created that the player cannot win.
-However, there are a few methods to render a game '''unwinnable''', most of which are related to the [[Quest]]. This may happen by accident, but can also occur through very deliberate action on the player's part. These are the ways in which a game can become unwinnable:
+As of [[NetHack 5.0.0]], every game should be winnable -- any unwinnable states remaining are [[software bug|bug]]s. In prior versions, a game could become unwinnable by design if the [[hero]] was unable to begin or proceed on the [[Quest]]; other unwinnable conditions were the result of bugs which have been fixed in the current version. The known unwinnable states in previous versions are:
-# Before getting permission from the quest leader or proceeding down afterward, [[Altar#Danger in sacrificing|converting your alignment]] at an [[altar]] (exception: you are [[Helm of opposite alignment|non-neutral]] and the quest portal is still present)
+== Quest failure (3.1.0 to 3.6.7) ==
-The exceptions are what can be overcome using the [[Eye of the Aethiopica]] and/or a [[helm of opposite alignment]].
+Every character must complete the Quest to obtain the [[Bell of Opening]], needed to perform the [[Invocation]]. There were several ways that this could become impossible:
-These actions make it impossible to obtain the [[Bell of Opening]] from the [[quest nemesis]], or to get the [[Amulet of Yendor]] back out of the quest branch, or perform the Invocation - all of these are necessary to [[win]].
+* Before getting permission from the quest leader or proceeding down afterward, [[Altar#Danger in sacrificing|convert your alignment]] at an [[altar]]. You can no longer receive permission to begin the Quest, and a [[helm of opposite alignment]] will not fool the [[Quest leader]].
-The best a player can do in an unwinnable situation is to [[escaping the dungeon|escape the dungeon]] with the [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], the [[Book of the Dead]] and any other sources of bragging rights.
+As of NetHack 5.0.0, the Quest portal is never removed, and it's possible to proceed by killing the Quest leader, so none of these states apply.
-==Permanently converting your alignment==
+== Unlightable Candelabrum (3.1.0 to 3.4.3) ==
-The above situation ''can'' be overcome with a helm of opposite alignment, which also changes the hero's alignment, but only while the helm is worn. As such, it does '''not''' render the game unwinnable, since removing the helm (which usually requires [[curse removal|uncursing it]] due to its [[autocursing]] nature) restores the character's previous alignment. Note that you cannot put on the helm in the quest branch, with a somewhat misleading message being printed if you try:
+When the [[Candelabrum of Invocation]] is lit while not on the [[vibrating square]], it loses half of its remaining turns of light. If this occurs while it has exactly one turn left, the turns remaining are rounded down to zero, but the attached candles are not removed as would occur if it burned down naturally, so no more candles can be added.
-{{message|You narrowly avoid losing all chance at your goal}}
+== Destroyed Book (3.1.0 to 3.4.3) ==
-==Getting expelled==
+It is possible to destroy the [[Book of the Dead]] by walking into [[lava]] without fire resistance. Doing so will destroy every fire-vulnerable item in your inventory, and the Book of the Dead is not exempt, so a hero that survives via an [[amulet of life saving]] will find the Book lost forever.  This was fixed in [[NetHack 3.6.0]], where the Book is protected against [[Fire (element)|fire]] of any kind.
-In this case, you will not be able to enter the quest branch at all by normal means. If you do [[branchport]] in, you will have to [[spellbook of charm monster|pacify]] your quest leader before you can get permission to go down.
+== Missing Vlad (3.6.0 to 3.6.7) ==
-If you threw the Amulet of Yendor at the quest leader, it is trapped in the quest branch. Once the [[portal]] is gone, the only way to get it out is to get expelled again while carrying it. The quest leader still has to be alive for this to work.
+If [[Vlad the Impaler]] has the Candelabrum stolen from him, he'll be able to shapeshift as other vampires do. If the hero dies and leaves [[bones]] with a shapeshifted Vlad in the level, he'll be missed by the code that would strip him out of the bones file. When another player loads those bones, Vlad will be present, and as a [[unique monster]], he won't be generated again. This leaves no way to get the Candelabrum in that game.
-Entering the quest at all requires the player is [[neutral]], is not a [[wizard]], and has previously entered the quest branch: the player can [[wish]] for the [[Eye of the Aethiopica]] to branchport to the quest. (You have to have visited the quest once already because the Eye will not open a portal to a branch you haven't been to, and it will only drop you as deep as you have already gone before.)
+== Astral hangup (3.0.0 to 3.6.7) ==
-==Dead quest leader==
+On the [[Astral Plane]], after [[offer]]ing the Amulet of Yendor to your god but before ascending, if you save the game via [[hangup]], when you load, the Amulet will be gone, making ascension impossible.
 ==Variants==
@@ Line 54: / Line 42: @@
 ===dNetHack===
 One of the artifacts, [[The Silver Key]], can be used to perform the Invocation instead of the [[Bell of Opening]]. This lets the game become winnable even if blocked from the quest.
-{{nethack-361}}
+{{nethack-500}}
 [[Category:Strategy]]

@@ Line 15: / Line 15: @@
 The best a player can do in an unwinnable situation is to [[escaping the dungeon|escape the dungeon]] with the [[Candelabrum of Invocation]], the [[Book of the Dead]] and any other sources of bragging rights.
-==Converting your alignment==
+==Permanently converting your alignment==
-If the player unsuccessfully performs an altar conversion by sacrificing at a [[cross-aligned]] altar with negative [[alignment record]], he or she is converted to the [[alignment]] of the altar. That means permission to proceed down cannot be obtained from the quest leader at all. A player's alignment cannot be converted back to any previously held alignment by means of an altar, and the [[quest leader]] will "see through" a helm of opposite alignment.
+If the player unsuccessfully performs an altar conversion by sacrificing at a [[cross-aligned]] altar with negative [[alignment record]], he or she is ''permanently'' converted to the [[alignment]] of the altar. If done before they obtain permission to proceed down from the [[quest leader]], the game is made unwinnable: a hero's alignment cannot be converted back to any previously held alignment by means of an altar, and the quest leader will "see through" a helm of opposite alignment; furthermore, you cannot go down or [[level teleport]] from the quest home level, even with prior permission, if you are not of your original alignment.
-You cannot go down or [[level teleport]] from the quest home level, even with prior permission, if you are not of your original alignment. This ''can'' be overcome with a helm of opposite alignment.
+The above situation ''can'' be overcome with a helm of opposite alignment, which also changes the hero's alignment, but only while the helm is worn. As such, it does '''not''' render the game unwinnable, since removing the helm (which usually requires [[curse removal|uncursing it]] due to its [[autocursing]] nature) restores the character's previous alignment. Note that you cannot put on the helm in the quest branch, with a somewhat misleading message being printed if you try:
-Note that simply putting on a helm of opposite alignment does '''not''' render the game unwinnable -- removing the helm (requiring [[curse removal|uncursing]] it) restores the character's previous alignment. You cannot put on the helm in the quest branch. The message you get if you try, "You narrowly avoid losing all chance at your goal", is somewhat misleading.
+{{message|You narrowly avoid losing all chance at your goal}}
 ==Getting expelled==

@@ Line 20: / Line 20: @@
 You cannot go down or [[level teleport]] from the quest home level, even with prior permission, if you are not of your original alignment. This ''can'' be overcome with a helm of opposite alignment.
-Note that simply putting on a helm of opposite alignment does '''not''' render the game unwinnable -- removing the helm (after [[curse removal|uncursing]], if necessary) restores the character's previous alignment. You cannot put on the helm in the quest branch. The message you get if you try, "You narrowly avoid losing all chance at your goal", is somewhat misleading.
+Note that simply putting on a helm of opposite alignment does '''not''' render the game unwinnable -- removing the helm (after [[curse removal|uncursing]] it) restores the character's previous alignment. You cannot put on the helm in the quest branch. The message you get if you try, "You narrowly avoid losing all chance at your goal", is somewhat misleading.
 ==Getting expelled==

@@ Line 32: / Line 32: @@
 ==Dead quest leader==
-{{upcoming|NetHack 3.7.0|You can gain access to the Quest by killing your Quest Leader. Doing so gives +7 to god [[anger]] and -20 to [[Luck]], and causes your Luck to time out to -4. You also forfeit the alignment record bonus from killing your Quest Nemesis.}}
+If the [[quest leader]] is killed or [[level teleport]]s before you get permission to go down, the game will also be unwinnable. (Monsters will read scrolls of teleportation when they are low on hit points.) Luckily, the leader is generated meditating, and a peaceful one will only be attacked by pets under conflict, so a levelporting leader is extremely rare. Due to a bug, a [[petrified]] quest leader brought back with [[stone to flesh]] or one that has been [[revived]] will not grant permission. Additionally, only the actual monster can grant or deny permission; a [[doppelganger]] imitating them through some means (e.g. using stone to flesh on a statue of a quest guardian or leader) does not count.
-If the [[quest leader]] is killed or [[level teleport]]s before you get permission to go down, the game will also be unwinnable. (Monsters will read scrolls of teleportation when they are low on hit points.) Luckily, the leader is generated meditating, and a peaceful one will only be attacked by pets under conflict, so a levelporting leader is extremely rare. Due to a bug, a [[petrified]] quest leader brought back with [[stone to flesh]] or one that has been [[revive]]d will not grant permission. Additionally, only the actual monster can grant or deny permission; a [[doppelganger]] imitating them through some means (e.g. using stone to flesh on a statue of a quest guardian or leader) does not count.
+The same restrictions apply to expulsion from the quest, in case you are trying to leave it with the Amulet.
-The same restrictions apply to expulsion from the quest, in case you are trying to leave it with the Amulet.
+{{upcoming|NetHack 3.7.0|Per {{commit|20cbadcf85544cf9d0c3f4e4200b2800bab49c8e}}, being expelled from the Quest no longer seals off the branch by removing the portal, meaning that the game is no longer unwinnable: the quest leader will be hostile when you re-enter the level, and you may either pacify the leader and get their approval to enter the Quest normally, or you may kill them: doing so increases your god's [[anger]] by 7, sets your base [[luck]] to -4, applies a -20 luck penalty, and forfeits the [[alignment record]] bonus from killing the quest nemesis.}}
 ==History==

@@ Line 45: / Line 45: @@
 ==Variants==
 ===SLASH'EM===
-In SLASH'EM, the six innermost doors on the highest level of [[Vlad's Tower]] are indestructible, protecting [[Vlad the Impaler]] and the Candelabrum of Invocation.  They are opened by the [[alignment key]]s, artifact [[skeleton key]]s which can be destroyed like any other item (e.g. eaten by a [[metallivore]]).  While the destruction of the keys would seem to render the game unwinnable, it does not: Vlad can be woken by such means as a [[drum of earthquake]] or a psychic blast from a tame [[mind flayer]] or a hero [[polymorph]]ed into one, and he will then warp to the player carrying the Candelabrum.  Alternately, an appropriate [[covetous]] monster can be lured to his level, which will then warp to him and wake him up.
+In SLASH'EM, the six innermost doors on the highest level of [[Vlad's Tower]] are indestructible, protecting [[Vlad the Impaler]] and the Candelabrum of Invocation.  They are opened by the [[alignment key]]s, artifact [[skeleton key]]s which can be destroyed like any other item (e.g. eaten by a [[metallivore]]).  While the destruction of the keys would seem to render the game unwinnable, it does not: Vlad can be woken by such means as a [[drum of earthquake]] or a psychic blast from a tame [[mind flayer]] or a hero [[polymorph]]ed into one, and he will then warp to the player, carrying the Candelabrum.  Alternately, an appropriate [[covetous]] monster can be lured to his level, which will then warp to him and wake him up.
 A considerably tougher situation can be created by trapping oneself ''inside'' Vlad's chambers, with the keys either destroyed or simply outside.  This is actually not too difficult to do: quaffing a cursed [[potion of gain level]] on the floor below can leave you inside the locked doors, as can more obscure means such as re-locking the doors and eating the keys.  As the walls and floor of Vlad's Tower are undiggable and the level is no-teleport, the only means of escape is some form of [[level teleportation]] or [[branchport]]ing.  A hero lacking such a means would be required to wait around until an appropriate item is generated from a [[death drop]], and this is not guaranteed to occur before all suitable monsters are rendered [[extinct]]&mdash;particularly in SLASH'EM where non-humanoid monsters never leave death drops.  In order to guarantee an eventual escape, a hero would need to exploit a monster capable of casting [[summon nasties]], which does not respect extinction.