User:Phol ende wodan/Balance issues - Revision history

Phol ende wodan: /* Wands */ add balance consideration

2018-09-17T12:20:03Z

‎Wands: add balance consideration

Phol ende wodan: /* Wishes */ add idea #4

2018-09-17T11:28:59Z

‎Wishes: add idea #4

Phol ende wodan: /* Nutrition */ Consider prayer and =oSD as problems, propose idea #10

2018-09-16T04:11:26Z

‎Nutrition: Consider prayer and =oSD as problems, propose idea #10

Phol ende wodan: /* Midgame power spike */ Nutrition also becomes a non-issue

2017-12-27T04:46:28Z

‎Midgame power spike: Nutrition also becomes a non-issue

Phol ende wodan: Note practical problems: lots of nerfs will not be well received

2017-10-23T00:51:21Z

Note practical problems: lots of nerfs will not be well received

Phol ende wodan: Add untrapping, death magic, and threat level per monster

2017-09-25T20:57:41Z

Add untrapping, death magic, and threat level per monster

Phol ende wodan: /* Midgame power spike */ Cap Luck at XL/3

2017-09-05T16:57:31Z

‎Midgame power spike: Cap Luck at XL/3

Phol ende wodan: Expand unicorn horns, and add Mines' End loot and ammo breakage sections

2017-08-24T20:03:11Z

Expand unicorn horns, and add Mines' End loot and ammo breakage sections

Zombifier: /* Balance considerations */

2017-08-12T22:52:57Z

‎Balance considerations

Phol ende wodan: /* Wishes */ Early single wishes are predictable

2017-08-12T14:01:39Z

‎Wishes: Early single wishes are predictable

@@ Line 555: / Line 555: @@
 * Wands are ineffective against the player in the late game. Rays don't work at all because the player will have reflection, and the only beam wand monsters will use, force bolt, doesn't work because the player will have magic resistance (and enough HP not to care anyway).
 * Many wands become useless to the player as the game progresses as well: speed monster is only useful if you happen to get hit by a cockatrice and lose your speed, magic missile does a piddling 2d6 damage, make invisible isn't needed after one zap. Other wands like fire, cold, and striking aren't really worth zapping as attacks any more and are only worth keeping around for their utility purposes.
 '''Idea #1:''' The [[Wands Balance Patch]], of course.

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:28, 17 September 2018
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	'''Idea #3:''' If another wish source like scrolls is provided, remove wands of wishing entirely.		'''Idea #3:''' If another wish source like scrolls is provided, remove wands of wishing entirely.
		+
		+	'''Idea #4:''' Spread the wishes out around the late game.
		+	* Easiest way to set this up is to make wands of wishing guarantee exactly one wish (always turning to dust after granting one), and then scatter multiple ones around.
		+	* This can already sort of be done with magic lamps, but that is less reliable.
		+	* Good places to scatter wishes include demon lairs, the fake Wizard's Tower, the real Wizard's Tower (maybe with the Wizard himself), Vlad's Tower, and keep one or two at the Castle.

	== Conflict ==		== Conflict ==

@@ Line 29: / Line 29: @@
 Egregious sources of nutrition in the dungeon include:
 * Randomly generated food. Even in Gehennom, food makes up 16% of all random objects. This is most commonly food rations, which provide 800 nutrition.
-* Soldiers, each of whom carries abouut 300-1200 nutrition in lightweight rations.
+* Soldiers, each of whom carries about 300-1200 nutrition in lightweight rations.
 * Kops, who can be farmed for an infinite source of cream pies.
 * Corpses. As the game goes on, monsters get larger and their corpses provide more nutrition. A non-vegetarian character could probably survive through Gehennom on randomly encountered dragons alone at 1500 nutrition a pop. On the other hand, corpses in the very early game seem pretty well balanced, with many things being inedible for an early character and nothing that provides a lot of nutrition.
 * Polypiling. It's mainly a problem because it allows low-nutrition food to be transformed into the most common type of food, food rations, which are high-nutrition (and other high nutrition/weight foods as well).
 * Trees, on levels where there are many accessible trees (e.g. the Ranger quest). Especially so since fruit from trees does not rot.
 * Create monster sources. Allows on-demand generation of monsters, and therefore corpses. The spellbook lets this happen indefinitely as long as the player's power regeneration can keep up. The scroll, when cursed, also gets a lot of mileage, but the player probably won't get enough scrolls and markers off the monsters to keep going. Wands and the bag of tricks run out eventually and will usually not be worth recharging unless the player has the Platinum Yendorian Express Card.  Therefore, the spellbook is the worst offender here, and probably one worth looking at.
 * Stone to flesh. For a character who can cast it with any reliability, boulders will be encountered far more often than once every 2000 turns. With giant generation and monster tunneling providing additional boulders, the supply of boulders in the game is practically infinite.
 ==== Not balance issues ====
 Sources of nutrition that I don't consider to be too plentiful or powerful:
 * Sokoban. There is a lot of food in it, but that's intentional and helps make it a strategic target for characters low on food.
 * Delicatessens. Ones that the player is likely to see (in Minetown) are small.  Ideally, a randomly generated delicatessen should be a boon to the player because it's not otherwise easy to find food, and a large one should mean that the player probably doesn't have to worry much about nutrition for a while. Though perhaps huge ones should be limited somehow, by turning into general stores over a certain size or something.
 * Trees, when there are not that many of them (Medusa's Island 3, Bustling Town), since the food they produce doesn't have that much nutrition, and early characters have to watch out for killer bees.
 * Amulets of life saving. They are a pretty valuable resource to spend on regaining some nutrition when being lifesaved.
 ==== Balance considerations ====
@@ Line 54: / Line 54: @@
 * Walking back and forth between different places is necessary in some games, so it should still be at least feasible to do so once or twice, though perhaps not for too far of a distance or too many times.
 * The amount of monsters encountered when exploring a level for the first time (ignoring special rooms) versus the amount of monsters encountered when wandering around that cleared level. Sometimes this ratio approaches 1:1, which doesn't make sense in context with the general idea that you're clearing out the level.
 '''Idea #1:''' cut the chance of random objects being comestibles sharply
@@ Line 101: / Line 102: @@
 * Probably {{white|R}} class.
 * jonadab suggested locusts, {{white|a}} class of course, which destroy food in inventory and possibly even in containers, and multiply while doing so. The effect of such a monster, even if it has weak attacks, could leave a player hungry and with no ready source of food.
 == Gehennom items ==

@@ Line 613: / Line 613: @@
 == Midgame power spike ==
-Over the course of the midgame, a good player's game tends to get a lot easier through various different factors.
+Over the course of the midgame, a good player's game tends to get a lot easier. Many of the challenges that are faced in the early game either disappear or are permanently overcome.
 === Balance issues ===
@@ Line 622: / Line 622: @@
 * The player will either have found an altar and have a source of creating monsters or a unicorn and some gems from Mines' End; luck can now be maximized.
 * Ability scores go up from blessed potions of gain ability. This can cause carrying capacity, to-hit, HP regen, energy regen (to a lesser extent), and spellcasting ability to skyrocket all at once.
 * A bag of holding can probably be blessed, further increasing what the player can carry and reducing the need for stash management.
 * The player is encouraged to save resources for this point so they can do all these things at once, instead of the progression happening gradually.

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:51, 23 October 2017
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	The end goal of balancing a game should be to make it more strategically interesting and fair while preserving its variety as much as possible. Balancing might involve reducing variety, but hopefully only the bad kind.		The end goal of balancing a game should be to make it more strategically interesting and fair while preserving its variety as much as possible. Balancing might involve reducing variety, but hopefully only the bad kind.
		+
		+	== Practical problems ==
		+	For all possible fixes listed on this page, I am more or less ignoring the programming side of things, unless one of them would require such massive overhauls as to be impractical.
		+
		+	However, there are some issues with implementing balance fixes that lie in player approval of the fix: the majority of rebalances here take the form of nerfs, and nerfing things tends to build up distaste with the variant or version they are implemented in. The better balance does not stand on its own, and a variant consisting mostly of balance fix nerfs and nothing else is unlikely to be very popular.

	== Nutrition ==		== Nutrition ==

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 This document is a work in progress. Ideas and balance considerations will be added as I devote more attention to them.
-Special thanks to [[User:Jonadab|Jonadab]], [[User:Chris|Chris]], [[User:NeroOneTrueKing|NeroOneTrueKing]], [[User:Bluescreenofdeath|Amy]], and [[User:Red kangaroo|Red kangaroo]] for their comments and contributions.
+Special thanks to [[User:Jonadab|Jonadab]], [[User:Chris|Chris]], [[User:NeroOneTrueKing|NeroOneTrueKing]], [[User:Bluescreenofdeath|Amy]], [[User:Ais523|Ais523]], [[User:FIQ|FIQ]], and [[User:Red kangaroo|Red kangaroo]] for their comments and contributions.
 == Why balancing is beneficial ==
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 '''Idea #1:''' (Fourk implementation) Skill level and skill cap in the relevant projectile's skill factors into breakage rates. Enchantment is more important, and Luck and blessing do not matter at all. Specifically, restriction in a skill makes projectiles very likely to break unless saved by positive enchantment, and decent skill makes projectiles unlikely to break unless negatively enchanted. Additionally, hard stones are less likely to break and cursed objects are more likely.
 [[Category:Design]]

@@ Line 304: / Line 304: @@
 == AC / damage reduction ==
-AC as both a stat for damage reduction and a stat for evasiveness is odd and different from how other games do it. Heavy armor ought to give high damage reduction but actually harm your evasivemess.
+AC determining both whether you get hit and your damage reduction is odd and different from how other games do it.
 '''Idea #1:''' (Fourk implementation) If a monster barely hits you, damage is heavily reduced on top of anything your armor does. If it hits you more cleanly, your armor is the only thing that reduces damage. This makes evasiveness and the monster's to-hit matter.
-'''Idea #2:''' Armor does not improve evasiveness, it only reduces damage. [[User:Phol_ende_wodan/Combat_issues_overhaul|This has grown into yet another full proposal.]]
+'''Idea #2:''' Armor does not improve evasiveness, it only reduces damage. [[User:Phol_ende_wodan/Combat_system_overhaul|This has grown into yet another full proposal.]]
 '''Idea #3:''' Overhaul armor class with a strictly positive index.
@@ Line 412: / Line 416: @@
 * As long as HP regen exists at all, sitting in a locked closet, or similar uneventful area, to regenerate to full health is probably going to be a valid strategy.
-== Attribute loss ==
+== Unicorn horns ==
-Attribute loss is too easily cured with a unicorn horn.
+Most status afflictions are too easily cured with a unicorn horn.
-==== Balance issues ====
+=== Balance issues ===
-* Potions and the spellbook of restore ability are almost worthless because unicorn horns are a perfect, infinite source of fixing attribute loss.
+Unicorn horns are a perfect, infinite source of fixing various afflictions.
-==== Not balance issues ====
+=== Not balance issues ===
 * The spell of restore ability is also a perfect, infinite source of fixing attribute loss, but this is its entire purpose, so it works as intended.
-'''Idea #1:''' (Slash'EM implementation) Unicorn horns eventually run out. Spending them frivolously to regain attributes might be what amounts to a waste of valuable resources.
+'''Idea #1:''' Unicorn horns are not infinite (they have charges, maybe?). Spending them frivolously to regain attributes might be what amounts to a waste of valuable resources.
 '''Idea #2:''' (GruntHack implementation) Unicorns themselves are very rare.
@@ Line 428: / Line 438: @@
 * Unicorns should probably be rarer than they are already. Yes I know their frequency is already 1, but they still pop up an awful lot.
-'''Idea #3:''' Unicorn horns simply don't fix attribute loss, and players have to look to other sources for fixing them.
+'''Idea #3:''' Unicorn horns simply don't fix [attribute loss|blindness|sickness|...], and players have to look to other sources for fixing them.
 '''Idea #4:''' Attribute loss from abuse is a permanent loss.
@@ Line 639: / Line 649: @@
 '''Idea #2:''' Make potions more powerful and situationally useful - a potion of restore ability might not be worth diluting if a unicorn horn can't fix your ability scores, for instance.
-'''Idea #3:''' Give everything at least some use, even if it's marginal, but preferably more than marginal if possible. Some examples are a scroll of fire buff I proposed that lets the user cast a blast of fire at range, and the scroll of amnesia draining skill practice points so skill slots can be re-shuffled.
+'''Idea #3:''' Give everything at least some use, even if it's marginal, but preferably more than marginal if possible. Some examples are a scroll of fire buff I proposed that lets the user cast a blast of fire at range (included in 3.6.1), and the scroll of amnesia draining skill practice points so skill slots can be re-shuffled.
 [[Category:Design]]

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:52, 12 August 2017
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	'''Idea #5:''' ([[User:Red kangaroo\|Red kangaroo]] suggestion) Make the player choose between good AC (plate mails), full magic cancellation (mithril-coats adjusted for less weight and less AC), and good intrinsics (dragon scale mails adjusted for more weight and much less AC, but with non-GDSM/SDSM having additional properties).		'''Idea #5:''' ([[User:Red kangaroo\|Red kangaroo]] suggestion) Make the player choose between good AC (plate mails), full magic cancellation (mithril-coats adjusted for less weight and less AC), and good intrinsics (dragon scale mails adjusted for more weight and much less AC, but with non-GDSM/SDSM having additional properties).
		+	* dnethack is somewhat like this - plate mail/crystal plate mail grants the most AC but is heavy, mithril-coats is extremely light, have full MC and allows your DEX to contribute fully to AC (at maximum DEX it provides the second best AC, only behind plates). DSM grants less AC than either options but almost every color is buffed.

	== Artifact weapons ==		== Artifact weapons ==

@@ Line 342: / Line 342: @@
 * Compounds the Gehennom items being useless problem.
 * If the player happens to find a random wand of wishing, they get another 5-7 wishes, which basically guarantees a win for an intermediate or experienced player.
 '''Idea #1:''' (Fourk implementation) Provide scrolls of wishing or magic lamps at various points in Gehennom. Of course, a scroll is good for only one wish. These scrolls are un-polypileable, take more than 99 marker charges to write, but they might be an extremely rare naturally generated find.