User:Tjr/12-conduct ascension - Revision history

Furey: http: -> https: . Change wikia links to nethackwiki links. This is a talk page, but it says: "Please feel free to improve this notes collection."

2024-06-12T13:25:50Z

http: -> https: . Change wikia links to nethackwiki links. This is a talk page, but it says: "Please feel free to improve this notes collection."

Tjr: /* Feedback to this draft */ =Example games= -- those with bell

2014-01-16T13:26:47Z

‎Feedback to this draft: =Example games= -- those with bell

Tjr: Everybody, feel free to edit.

2013-11-27T21:58:23Z

Everybody, feel free to edit.

194.116.198.185: /* Throne farming */ fmt, sorry

2013-11-18T13:29:16Z

‎Throne farming: fmt, sorry

Yeti: /* Specific difficulty of a 12-conduct ascension */

2013-11-17T11:54:26Z

‎Specific difficulty of a 12-conduct ascension

Yeti at 11:52, 17 November 2013

2013-11-17T11:52:55Z

Tjr: /* Feedback to this draft */

2013-11-17T11:42:25Z

‎Feedback to this draft

Tjr: discussion with yeti218 on IRC

2013-11-17T11:33:37Z

discussion with yeti218 on IRC

Tjr: elaborate on time. thanks yeti

2013-11-17T11:24:26Z

elaborate on time. thanks yeti

Tjr: 12 == all

2013-11-16T18:44:39Z

12 == all

@@ Line 164: / Line 164: @@
 Basically, if you want to write a start scumming bot the shell script way, this dual-slow-digestion mini-script (above) can show you how to read stuff from nethack and check for  favorable output.
-The fourth step is to "play", err, work. Since you're in for a lot of frustration, you might as well analyze each death and figure out how to prevent it. Roughly, (1) drums and horns (and mirrors) are your friend, (2) learn to dance around your pet for protection, (3) you're basically game-time speed running sinc eyour pets are slowsing you down that much, (4) you need to have a magic whistle, mine's end, the sokoban scrolls and bag, speed, and a throne (preferrably not quest home), and a cursed and a non-cursed unihorn, and a lot price-IDd potions  set up until turn 15000. (5) David Damerell's object identification spoiler is your friend. It pays to memorize all the intricacies and quirks, since you will never, ever get a formal identification or altar test. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/games/nhid.html To max your Luck, combine it with gem pricing, the shopkeeper ID thing in http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Gem#By_color
+The fourth step is to "play", err, work. Since you're in for a lot of frustration, you might as well analyze each death and figure out how to prevent it. Roughly, (1) drums and horns (and mirrors) are your friend, (2) learn to dance around your pet for protection, (3) you're basically game-time speed running sinc eyour pets are slowsing you down that much, (4) you need to have a magic whistle, mine's end, the sokoban scrolls and bag, speed, and a throne (preferrably not quest home), and a cursed and a non-cursed unihorn, and a lot price-IDd potions  set up until turn 15000. (5) David Damerell's object identification spoiler is your friend. It pays to memorize all the intricacies and quirks, since you will never, ever get a formal identification or altar test. https://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~damerell/games/nhid.html To max your Luck, combine it with gem pricing, the shopkeeper ID thing in https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Gem#By_color
 You can easily get gain level pots by throne farming >> only if your pets kill monsters fast enough. I've had trouble getting to those potions consistently.
@@ Line 250: / Line 250: @@
 Do you have any ideas how to solve these difficulties?
-[1] http://www.43things.com/things/view/1586154/do-a-12-conduct-nethack-ascension
+[1] https://www.43things.com/things/view/1586154/do-a-12-conduct-nethack-ascension
-[2] http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/browse_thread/thread/06051fbb38d6571f
+[2] https://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/browse_thread/thread/06051fbb38d6571f
-[3] http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Pacifist
+[3] https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Pacifist
-[4] http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Foodless
+[4] https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Foodless
-[5] http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Wishless
+[5] https://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Wishless
-[6] http://alt.org/nethack/plr.php?player=Tenaya12
+[6] https://alt.org/nethack/plr.php?player=Tenaya12
-[7] http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/browse_thread/thread/d21dcd055424f9f6/93ab57c23d380a6b
+[7] https://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.roguelike.nethack/browse_thread/thread/d21dcd055424f9f6/93ab57c23d380a6b
 ==Follow-up==
@@ Line 496: / Line 496: @@
 The best way to learn is to watch a ttyrec of a pro, and try to predict what they are going to do next.
-* http://alt.org/nethack/userdata/w/waros/dumplog/1319984267.nh343.txt
+* https://alt.org/nethack/userdata/w/waros/dumplog/1319984267.nh343.txt
-* http://alt.org/nethack/userdata/h/hir/dumplog/1315078546.nh343.txt
+* https://alt.org/nethack/userdata/h/hir/dumplog/1315078546.nh343.txt

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:26, 16 January 2014
Line 491:		Line 491:

	Trap avoidance: Marvin recommends moving in a small number of patterns, so that you minimize the tiles you step on. Ebonhack seems to implement breadcrumbs, but I haven't been able to get it to work. Three contradicting goals: Find a polytrap as fast as possible in a location near some stairs, don't die to a trap, and formally identify all traps that could level teleport or polymorph your bodygaurds.		Trap avoidance: Marvin recommends moving in a small number of patterns, so that you minimize the tiles you step on. Ebonhack seems to implement breadcrumbs, but I haven't been able to get it to work. Three contradicting goals: Find a polytrap as fast as possible in a location near some stairs, don't die to a trap, and formally identify all traps that could level teleport or polymorph your bodygaurds.
		+
		+	=Example games=
		+
		+	The best way to learn is to watch a ttyrec of a pro, and try to predict what they are going to do next.
		+
		+	* http://alt.org/nethack/userdata/w/waros/dumplog/1319984267.nh343.txt
		+
		+	* http://alt.org/nethack/userdata/h/hir/dumplog/1315078546.nh343.txt

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:58, 27 November 2013
Line 1:		Line 1:
−	In the future, I might write an article how to go for a 12-conduct ascension. That means every single conduct at once. Until then, these are my collected notes:	+	In the future, I might write an article how to go for a 12-conduct ascension. That means every single conduct at once. Until then, these are my collected notes. Everybody, feel free to edit.

	Placeholder paragraph about specific difficulties (beyond what the conduct pages say, in particular beyond pacifist).		Placeholder paragraph about specific difficulties (beyond what the conduct pages say, in particular beyond pacifist).

@@ Line 380: / Line 380: @@
 In this test drive, I saved some typing work with a constructed bones file.
-=== Fountains, object identification, armor class, alchemy, Luck, and
+=== Fountains, object identification, armor class, alchemy, Luck, and other housekeeping chores===
 The fourth task is to prepare for the more dangerous sequel.

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 =Specific difficulty of a 12-conduct ascension=
-We should write here what makes it especially difficult to ascend a 12-conduct. There have been quite a lot 10-conducts for example. But why is this so much more difficult. People should be deeply impressed just by reading what challenges have to be overcome. Each challenge should link to its own section where (possible) solutions are offered.
+We should write here what makes it especially difficult to ascend a 12-conduct. There have been quite a lot 10-conducts for example. But why is this so much more difficult. People should get an idea just by reading what challenges have to be overcome how hard it is. Each challenge should link to its own section where (possible) solutions are offered.
 =Lessons from one early 12-conduct game=

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:52, 17 November 2013
Line 2:		Line 2:

	Placeholder paragraph about specific difficulties (beyond what the conduct pages say, in particular beyond pacifist).		Placeholder paragraph about specific difficulties (beyond what the conduct pages say, in particular beyond pacifist).
		+
		+	=Specific difficulty of a 12-conduct ascension=
		+	We should write here what makes it especially difficult to ascend a 12-conduct. There have been quite a lot 10-conducts for example. But why is this so much more difficult. People should be deeply impressed just by reading what challenges have to be overcome. Each challenge should link to its own section where (possible) solutions are offered.

	=Lessons from one early 12-conduct game=		=Lessons from one early 12-conduct game=

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:42, 17 November 2013
Line 484:		Line 484:
	Early game could correspond to finding a polytrap and making 2-3 good pets. (Nutrition is definitely another phase.) The start would have to be, start with =oSD and other stuff you cannot make, keep an eye out for itmes (since you won't have the nutrition / pet health to collect it on a second trip), keep pet alive and tame a second one, go for the oracle (increased survaivability from level up), dive into mines, find poly trap, have a way to repeat the trap with it.		Early game could correspond to finding a polytrap and making 2-3 good pets. (Nutrition is definitely another phase.) The start would have to be, start with =oSD and other stuff you cannot make, keep an eye out for itmes (since you won't have the nutrition / pet health to collect it on a second trip), keep pet alive and tame a second one, go for the oracle (increased survaivability from level up), dive into mines, find poly trap, have a way to repeat the trap with it.

		+	A magic whistle isn't just nice, it's the difference between starvation and making it to a farm in time. You absolutely need it to make an ascension quality pet. Before you get a magic whistle, you can arrange boulders around the polytrap so that your leashed pet has to move over the trap, but that method takes too long to go for a balrog.

−	~~A magic whistle isn't just nice~~, ~~it's the difference between starvation and making it~~ to a farm ~~in time~~. ~~You absolutely need it~~ to make ~~an ascension quality pet. Before you~~ get a magic whistle, you can ~~arrange boulders around~~ the ~~polytrap so~~ that your ~~leashed pet has~~ to ~~move over~~ the ~~trap~~, but ~~that method takes too long~~ to ~~go for~~ a ~~balrog~~.	+	After getting a pet that secures your immediate survival, next goals could be: collecting things you need to farm for booze. Collect way to make nutriton (polyself ringset, extra ring of =SD, collect all potions and price-ID them (drink fruit juice, booze only when blessed), get a magic whistle or at least 2 leashes, try on all armor, get a stethscope if you can, get 2 unihorns and curse one, price-ID every single randomly generated item (because that will help you know what you find in your throne farm), get the luckstone and some gems and toss them at a coaligned unicorn, get a decent collection of escape items, a mummy wrapping, the three intrinsics (see invisible, invisible, speed), collect all potions that could be levitation (for multi-step alchemy), just generally clear the dungeon without ever going out of your way. Level up to level 4 for sleep resistance, but be sure to keep any foocubi safe.
		+
		+	Trap avoidance: Marvin recommends moving in a small number of patterns, so that you minimize the tiles you step on. Ebonhack seems to implement breadcrumbs, but I haven't been able to get it to work. Three contradicting goals: Find a polytrap as fast as possible in a location near some stairs, don't die to a trap, and formally identify all traps that could level teleport or polymorph your bodygaurds.

← Older revision		Revision as of 11:33, 17 November 2013
Line 475:		Line 475:

	Any named demon will try to fetch the Amulet. The problem is either how to kill the demon afterwards, or how to transport and protect the demon until it retrieves the Amulet. Unfortunately, Juiblex and Yeenoghu have already been "used up" while farming water demons. Asmodeus at level 49 is particularily hard to kill and easy to pay off. Perhaps Orcus would work. The question how to survive the Sanctum still needs some thought.		Any named demon will try to fetch the Amulet. The problem is either how to kill the demon afterwards, or how to transport and protect the demon until it retrieves the Amulet. Unfortunately, Juiblex and Yeenoghu have already been "used up" while farming water demons. Asmodeus at level 49 is particularily hard to kill and easy to pay off. Perhaps Orcus would work. The question how to survive the Sanctum still needs some thought.
		+
		+	=Feedback to this draft=
		+
		+	Please feel free to improve this notes collection. It's not yet an article. Contradictions are because the notes were collected at different times.
		+
		+	The thing is, the early game / midgame distinction is superceded by (1) trying to get a powerful pet, (2) trying to collect magic whistle, rings, and certain useful items, (3) trying to get a farm set up for nutrition, (4) farming and alchemy, (5) quest, (6) exploring the rest of the dungeons, (7) the big unknown methods how to tackle gehennom and related challenges
		+
		+	Early game could correspond to finding a polytrap and making 2-3 good pets. (Nutrition is definitely another phase.) The start would have to be, start with =oSD and other stuff you cannot make, keep an eye out for itmes (since you won't have the nutrition / pet health to collect it on a second trip), keep pet alive and tame a second one, go for the oracle (increased survaivability from level up), dive into mines, find poly trap, have a way to repeat the trap with it.
		+
		+
		+	A magic whistle isn't just nice, it's the difference between starvation and making it to a farm in time. You absolutely need it to make an ascension quality pet. Before you get a magic whistle, you can arrange boulders around the polytrap so that your leashed pet has to move over the trap, but that method takes too long to go for a balrog.

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 In the future, I might write an article how to go for a 12-conduct ascension. That means every single conduct at once. Until then, these are my collected notes:
 =Lessons from one early 12-conduct game=
@@ Line 62: / Line 64: @@
 * Keep track of nutrition:  displacing, and stressed, and turns you're without slow digestion, or wearing jewelry etc.
 * Since your pet healing rate is the limit to how fast you can go, a red/brown mold can really ground you. Don't push forward faster than you really should.
 * Remap movement keys to avoid bump-kills. Make a macro that masks the difference between tooled horns and leather drums.
 * Attributes: a) exercise: doors and boulders for strength is worth it. Perhaps locks and instruments for dex if bored. Wisdom is unimportant, and you gain it for free from Foocubi, but you could donate to the Oracle. Don't search known but unrevealed secret doors because you need to use-test a ring of searching. b) Alchemized blessed gain ability will take care of everything else. You quaff it at XP4, before leveling up further for the quest. Next, you can either cursed-unicorn your stats and level down (to avoid trappers etc. when throne farming), or you could level up for teleport control. Drain for gain is where rings of increase constitution etc are useful.

← Older revision		Revision as of 18:44, 16 November 2013
Line 1:		Line 1:
−	In the future, I might write an article how to go for a 12-conduct ascension. Until then, these are my collected notes:	+	In the future, I might write an article how to go for a 12-conduct ascension. That means every single conduct at once. Until then, these are my collected notes:

	=Lessons from one early 12-conduct game=		=Lessons from one early 12-conduct game=