User talk:Phol ende wodan/Balance issues - Revision history

Bluescreenofdeath: /* Wishes */

2018-09-18T09:11:27Z

‎Wishes

Carandol: A few thoughts.

2017-11-25T20:59:57Z

A few thoughts.

Chris: Wish items in D&D

2017-08-12T21:17:41Z

Wish items in D&D

Chris: /* To-hit formula */

2017-08-12T18:11:40Z

‎To-hit formula

Phol ende wodan: Move some comments to the main page

2017-08-12T00:54:59Z

Move some comments to the main page

NeroOneTrueKing: /* Junk scrolls and potions */ new section

2017-08-11T17:14:37Z

‎Junk scrolls and potions: new section

NeroOneTrueKing: /* Mid-Game Power Spike */ new section

2017-08-11T04:11:50Z

‎Mid-Game Power Spike: new section

Chris: /* Energy regeneration */ dNethack uses a 30-turn-based system, not a 60 turn one, which typically isn't important but which does mean that Wisdom is rounded down.

2017-08-09T21:10:54Z

‎Energy regeneration: dNethack uses a 30-turn-based system, not a 60 turn one, which typically isn't important but which does mean that Wisdom is rounded down.

FIQ: Use the actual eregen factors for fh

2017-08-09T16:43:55Z

Use the actual eregen factors for fh

FIQ at 16:22, 9 August 2017

2017-08-09T16:22:49Z

@@ Line 83: / Line 83: @@
 ** Finally, there are Candles of Invocation, which were probably not intended to grant wishes, but which have become known as a wish item since they can be used to summon a genie or similar being that can be made to grant one or more wishes to the summoner (In versions where the players are able to summon something able to grant more than one wish, an infinite loop is technically possible since one of the wishes can be used to create a new Candle of Invocation, and the other wishes used to do useful things. Of course, most Dungeon Masters would not allow this).
 ** Wizards in D&D can also learn to cast Wish normally, but there are various mechanisms in place intended to prevent them from overusing the spell (how '''successful''' and/or '''fun''' these mechanisms are is a different question). --[[User:Chris|Chris]] ([[User talk:Chris|talk]]) 21:15, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
 == Startscumming ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:59, 25 November 2017
Line 83:		Line 83:
	** Finally, there are Candles of Invocation, which were probably not intended to grant wishes, but which have become known as a wish item since they can be used to summon a genie or similar being that can be made to grant one or more wishes to the summoner (In versions where the players are able to summon something able to grant more than one wish, an infinite loop is technically possible since one of the wishes can be used to create a new Candle of Invocation, and the other wishes used to do useful things. Of course, most Dungeon Masters would not allow this).		** Finally, there are Candles of Invocation, which were probably not intended to grant wishes, but which have become known as a wish item since they can be used to summon a genie or similar being that can be made to grant one or more wishes to the summoner (In versions where the players are able to summon something able to grant more than one wish, an infinite loop is technically possible since one of the wishes can be used to create a new Candle of Invocation, and the other wishes used to do useful things. Of course, most Dungeon Masters would not allow this).
	** Wizards in D&D can also learn to cast Wish normally, but there are various mechanisms in place intended to prevent them from overusing the spell (how '''successful''' and/or '''fun''' these mechanisms are is a different question). --[[User:Chris\|Chris]] ([[User talk:Chris\|talk]]) 21:15, 12 August 2017 (UTC)		** Wizards in D&D can also learn to cast Wish normally, but there are various mechanisms in place intended to prevent them from overusing the spell (how '''successful''' and/or '''fun''' these mechanisms are is a different question). --[[User:Chris\|Chris]] ([[User talk:Chris\|talk]]) 21:15, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Startscumming ==
		+
		+	* Startscumming is a sign of imbalance in the early game. Good luck with the starting equipment can make a dramatic difference, far outweighing skill.
		+	** Make it so certain excessively powerful items can't be generated as starting equipment
		+	** More generally, set minimum dungeon levels for many items to be randomly generated. If it can't be generated on level one, players can't start with it.
		+	** One option would be to base this off the base price in shops - divide by 25 and round up to get the minimum level, so rings of slow digestion, with base price 200, won't be generated until the player reaches dungeon level 8, or deeper.
		+
		+	== Artifact clothes ==
		+
		+	* Another nice idea, but you'll need a quite a lot. If Merlin's Hat is clearly the best hat for spellcasters they'll all end up wearing it, so you'll want 2-5 artifact hats for spellcasters, 2-5 artifact hats for melee characters, and the same for every other clothes slot. [[User:Carandol\|Carandol]] ([[User talk:Carandol\|talk]]) 20:59, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:17, 12 August 2017
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	*potion of levitation		*potion of levitation
	**The player is warned when their levitation is running out, so it becomes safer to use a potion to cross bodies of water.		**The player is warned when their levitation is running out, so it becomes safer to use a potion to cross bodies of water.
		+
		+	== Wishes ==
		+
		+	*Possibly notably, while D&D has do-anything wishes, it has nothing like the wand of wishes.
		+	** Item-granted wishes typically come in packs of at most three: in the form of a Ring of Three Wishes or a Luckblade (which also has three gems representing three wishes it can grant). It is fairly common for such an item to be given out with one or more wishes already having been used by its previous owners.
		+	** Scrolls of (one) wish are also possible.
		+	** Finally, there are Candles of Invocation, which were probably not intended to grant wishes, but which have become known as a wish item since they can be used to summon a genie or similar being that can be made to grant one or more wishes to the summoner (In versions where the players are able to summon something able to grant more than one wish, an infinite loop is technically possible since one of the wishes can be used to create a new Candle of Invocation, and the other wishes used to do useful things. Of course, most Dungeon Masters would not allow this).
		+	** Wizards in D&D can also learn to cast Wish normally, but there are various mechanisms in place intended to prevent them from overusing the spell (how '''successful''' and/or '''fun''' these mechanisms are is a different question). --[[User:Chris\|Chris]] ([[User talk:Chris\|talk]]) 21:15, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 *I would very much like to see this rebalanced. Maybe both idea #1 and #2 could be used by introducing a die roll, ie. you would get 1dLuck + 1dXL to-hit instead of a flat value. I also really like idea #6 in Un, cockatrice corpses are OP anyway. --[[User:Red kangaroo|Red kangaroo]] ([[User talk:Red kangaroo|talk]]) 11:35, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 :My suggestion would be that if cockatrice corpses are OP, nerf them specifically, I've never understood why c corpses being OP would mean that all unskilled or restricted weapons would similarly suck. Early game is difficult enough already. --[[User:Bluescreenofdeath|Bluescreenofdeath]] ([[User talk:Bluescreenofdeath|talk]]) 12:47, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 == Energy regeneration ==

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Gold ==
@@ Line 24: / Line 10: @@
 *I would very much like to see this rebalanced. Maybe both idea #1 and #2 could be used by introducing a die roll, ie. you would get 1dLuck + 1dXL to-hit instead of a flat value. I also really like idea #6 in Un, cockatrice corpses are OP anyway. --[[User:Red kangaroo|Red kangaroo]] ([[User talk:Red kangaroo|talk]]) 11:35, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 :My suggestion would be that if cockatrice corpses are OP, nerf them specifically, I've never understood why c corpses being OP would mean that all unskilled or restricted weapons would similarly suck. Early game is difficult enough already. --[[User:Bluescreenofdeath|Bluescreenofdeath]] ([[User talk:Bluescreenofdeath|talk]]) 12:47, 6 August 2017 (UTC)
 == Energy regeneration ==
@@ Line 55: / Line 38: @@
 *** M: 25 with 11 or less Wisdom, otherwise 25 / (Wis - 10). Result is halved with energy regeneration.
 *** N: 1 + (XL/3), doubled with energy regeneration (It's slightly less due to using [[rne]], but will almost always have this outcome after XL10).
 == Amy's comments and thoughts ==
 Since there are so many things that I felt I had to comment, I made an entire page for them: [[User:Bluescreenofdeath/Balance_issues_comment]] - nothing of what I say in there is an absolute "must do" or "must not do" or anything, it's just my thoughts and everyone is free to use them or ignore them, I just wanted to write them down :) --[[User:Bluescreenofdeath|Bluescreenofdeath]] ([[User talk:Bluescreenofdeath|talk]]) 12:10, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
 == Junk scrolls and potions ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:14, 11 August 2017
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	** Blessing: you use a few potions of holy water to bless all of your most important scrolls and potions (identify, enchant armor, enchant weapon, full healing, gain ability).		** Blessing: you use a few potions of holy water to bless all of your most important scrolls and potions (identify, enchant armor, enchant weapon, full healing, gain ability).
	** The player is encouraged to save their resources for doing these all at once, causing a spike at the mid-game instead of a general progression. --[[User:NeroOneTrueKing\|NeroOneTrueKing]] ([[User talk:NeroOneTrueKing\|talk]]) 04:11, 11 August 2017 (UTC)		** The player is encouraged to save their resources for doing these all at once, causing a spike at the mid-game instead of a general progression. --[[User:NeroOneTrueKing\|NeroOneTrueKing]] ([[User talk:NeroOneTrueKing\|talk]]) 04:11, 11 August 2017 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Junk scrolls and potions ==
		+
		+	Make potions more powerful and situationally useful - a potion of restore ability might not be worth diluting if a unicorn horn can't fix your ability scores, for instance
		+	*potion of see invisible -> potion of sight
		+	**In addition to its current effects, it also cures blindness.
		+	**When blessed, it also cures hallucination.
		+	**It could also provide temporary immunity to blindness.
		+	**Also, if permanent intrinsic see invisible was removed, then a blessed potion of sight could act as a long-duration temporary see invisible source.
		+	*potion of object detection
		+	**When non-cursed, it also detects artifacts.
		+	*potion of booze
		+	**Quaffing heals for a small amount and gives a decent amount of nutrition (dnethack)
		+	*potion of invisibility
		+	**Is mostly reliant on whatever changes happen to invisibility in general.
		+	**If permanent intrinsic invisibility were removed, then a blessed potion of invisibility could act as a long-duration temporary invisibility source.
		+	*potion of monster detection
		+	**All BUCs grant temporary intrinsic monster detection
		+	**BUC then affects the duration of the effect (with uncursed being equivalent to current blessed duration)
		+	*potion of confusion
		+	**If casting a forgotten spell is unable to confuse the player, other sources of confusion (like the potion) become more useful.
		+	*potion of speed
		+	**Quaffing exercises dexterity.
		+	**Maybe: quaffing cures stoning, like a potion of acid.
		+	**For variants that have the slow status effect, it should cure that.
		+	*potion of levitation
		+	**The player is warned when their levitation is running out, so it becomes safer to use a potion to cross bodies of water.

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:11, 11 August 2017
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	Since there are so many things that I felt I had to comment, I made an entire page for them: [[User:Bluescreenofdeath/Balance_issues_comment]] - nothing of what I say in there is an absolute "must do" or "must not do" or anything, it's just my thoughts and everyone is free to use them or ignore them, I just wanted to write them down :) --[[User:Bluescreenofdeath\|Bluescreenofdeath]] ([[User talk:Bluescreenofdeath\|talk]]) 12:10, 8 August 2017 (UTC)		Since there are so many things that I felt I had to comment, I made an entire page for them: [[User:Bluescreenofdeath/Balance_issues_comment]] - nothing of what I say in there is an absolute "must do" or "must not do" or anything, it's just my thoughts and everyone is free to use them or ignore them, I just wanted to write them down :) --[[User:Bluescreenofdeath\|Bluescreenofdeath]] ([[User talk:Bluescreenofdeath\|talk]]) 12:10, 8 August 2017 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Mid-Game Power Spike ==
		+
		+	* Dipping is responsible for part of the power spike:
		+	** Alchemy: you use a few good potions (gain energy and gain level) to improve as many potions of (extra/full) healing as you can at once.
		+	** Blessing: you use a few potions of holy water to bless all of your most important scrolls and potions (identify, enchant armor, enchant weapon, full healing, gain ability).
		+	** The player is encouraged to save their resources for doing these all at once, causing a spike at the mid-game instead of a general progression. --[[User:NeroOneTrueKing\|NeroOneTrueKing]] ([[User talk:NeroOneTrueKing\|talk]]) 04:11, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

@@ Line 34: / Line 34: @@
 ** [[dNetHack]]
 *** +1/turn with [[energy regeneration]]
-*** +2XL/60 per turn (+1 at XL30)
+*** +XL per 30 turns (+1/turn at XL30)
-*** +Wis/60 per turn
+*** +1/2 Wis per 30 turns (rounded down)
-*** +20/60 per turn as a Wizard, +12/60 per turn as a Healer/Priest, +6/60 per turn as a Valkyrie/Monk
+*** -5 per 30 turns
-*** -5/60 per turn (Minimum cap is 1/30 per turn overall so it can't go negative)
+*** At this point, a minimum cap of 1 per 30 turns is applied, so low-level characters with low Wisdom don't experience zero or negative energy regen.
 ** [[FIQhack]]
 *** +1/turn with [[energy regeneration]]

@@ Line 40: / Line 40: @@
 ** [[FIQhack]]
 *** +1/turn with [[energy regeneration]]
-*** +XL/33 per turn
+*** +3XL/100 per turn
-*** +Wis/33 per turn if your Wisdom is more than 3
+*** +3Wis/100 per turn if your Wisdom is more than 3
-*** +10/30 per turn as a Wizard
+*** +33/100 per turn as a Wizard
 ** [[Fourk]] (Unless you're a Sylph which uses vanilla formula with assumed [[energy regeneration]])
 *** Regenerates '''N''' energy every '''M''' turns (similar to how vanilla does it).