User talk:Umbire the Phantom - Revision history

Umbire the Phantom: /* Magic traps and noise */ +1

2026-05-19T12:31:05Z

‎Magic traps and noise: +1

Tomsod: /* Magic traps and noise */ new section

2026-05-19T12:29:16Z

‎Magic traps and noise: new section

Tomsod: /* HP and power of vanilla roles */ thanks

2026-01-24T04:24:55Z

‎HP and power of vanilla roles: thanks

Umbire the Phantom: /* HP and power of vanilla roles */ reply further

2026-01-14T21:51:32Z

‎HP and power of vanilla roles: reply further

Umbire the Phantom: /* HP and power of vanilla roles */ reply

2026-01-14T21:26:35Z

‎HP and power of vanilla roles: reply

Tomsod: /* HP and power of vanilla roles */ new section

2026-01-14T20:57:03Z

‎HP and power of vanilla roles: new section

Umbire the Phantom: ...how did the bot edit get... whatever

2025-10-22T13:20:54Z

...how did the bot edit get... whatever

Umbire the Phantom: Created page with "==Welcome!== ''Welcome!'' Hi, Umbire the Phantom! Welcome, and thanks for joining {{SITENAME}}! *'''The NetHackWiki:How to help|How..."

2025-03-30T10:30:21Z

Created page with "==Welcome!== right|thumb|''Welcome!'' Hi, Umbire the Phantom! Welcome, and thanks for joining {{SITENAME}}! *'''The NetHackWiki:How to help|How..."

New page

==Welcome!==
[[File:Welcoming party.png|right|thumb|''Welcome!'']]
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-- [[User:New user message|New user message]] ([[User talk:New user message|talk]]) 01:41, 16 March 2019 (UTC)

:Any new messages should go below this line and section. Please and thank you. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:30, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
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← Older revision		Revision as of 12:31, 19 May 2026
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	About [https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Demon_lords_and_princes&curid=37841&diff=204228&oldid=204151 this]: no real need to change anything, but for the sake of your gameplay, magic traps do in fact make noise when they summon ([[magic trap#Description\|see reference 9]]), it's just that meditating unique monsters are specifically not disturbed by this. This can be important if e.g. you're trying to be stealthy in Valley graveyards, so take care! [[User:Tomsod\|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod\|talk]]) 12:29, 19 May 2026 (UTC)		About [https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Demon_lords_and_princes&curid=37841&diff=204228&oldid=204151 this]: no real need to change anything, but for the sake of your gameplay, magic traps do in fact make noise when they summon ([[magic trap#Description\|see reference 9]]), it's just that meditating unique monsters are specifically not disturbed by this. This can be important if e.g. you're trying to be stealthy in Valley graveyards, so take care! [[User:Tomsod\|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod\|talk]]) 12:29, 19 May 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	:I see, thank you. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 12:31, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 12:29, 19 May 2026
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	:: Alright, thanks, that's fair. Again, not gonna make it a habit, but this one felt worth a 500 word rant. [[User:Tomsod\|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod\|talk]]) 04:24, 24 January 2026 (UTC)		:: Alright, thanks, that's fair. Again, not gonna make it a habit, but this one felt worth a 500 word rant. [[User:Tomsod\|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod\|talk]]) 04:24, 24 January 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	== Magic traps and noise ==
		+
		+	About [https://nethackwiki.com/index.php?title=Demon_lords_and_princes&curid=37841&diff=204228&oldid=204151 this]: no real need to change anything, but for the sake of your gameplay, magic traps do in fact make noise when they summon ([[magic trap#Description\|see reference 9]]), it's just that meditating unique monsters are specifically not disturbed by this. This can be important if e.g. you're trying to be stealthy in Valley graveyards, so take care! [[User:Tomsod\|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod\|talk]]) 12:29, 19 May 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:24, 24 January 2026
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	:But as a tl;dr to summarize expectations: your initial additions will more than suffice for the time being, and while I'm still pondering the next move, there shouldn't be a need for me to tamper with them further once I finish reverting. ''If'' I do anything, I'll probably add in a pointer for those who want more detailed info about expected long-term HP/Pw growth, or changes along that line. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 21:51, 14 January 2026 (UTC)		:But as a tl;dr to summarize expectations: your initial additions will more than suffice for the time being, and while I'm still pondering the next move, there shouldn't be a need for me to tamper with them further once I finish reverting. ''If'' I do anything, I'll probably add in a pointer for those who want more detailed info about expected long-term HP/Pw growth, or changes along that line. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 21:51, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	:: Alright, thanks, that's fair. Again, not gonna make it a habit, but this one felt worth a 500 word rant. [[User:Tomsod\|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod\|talk]]) 04:24, 24 January 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:51, 14 January 2026
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	:Gave this a skim, and I'm willing enough to revert the changes in a while and then ponder if a compromise is possible—if not I'll live. I only leaned towards that level of detail in the first place since people in the past've gone to the trouble of crunching hard numbers on this sort of thing, so it's a bit of an ingrained habit. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 21:26, 14 January 2026 (UTC)		:Gave this a skim, and I'm willing enough to revert the changes in a while and then ponder if a compromise is possible—if not I'll live. I only leaned towards that level of detail in the first place since people in the past've gone to the trouble of crunching hard numbers on this sort of thing, so it's a bit of an ingrained habit. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 21:26, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	:But as a tl;dr to summarize expectations: your initial additions will more than suffice for the time being, and while I'm still pondering the next move, there shouldn't be a need for me to tamper with them further once I finish reverting. ''If'' I do anything, I'll probably add in a pointer for those who want more detailed info about expected long-term HP/Pw growth, or changes along that line. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 21:51, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:26, 14 January 2026
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	Your edit seemingly aims to provide more detailed information, but it effectively just copies parts of the original HP and Pw tables. I cannot agree with this because your version provides no additional information over those two articles - in particular, readers will once again have to perform addition by themselves - and also because without at least briefly describing the whole algorithm of gaining HP and energy on a level up, the relevant table columns are both cryptic and incomplete. (I for one had to re-read the original pages to figure out what the headers mean, although I was also confused by the [[Wizard]] table being mangled.) If you truly want that data to be useful, you'd need to include mentions of constitution, wisdom, and the role energy modifiers, as well as how it all goes together, as which point you may well transclude the entire relevant sections, but I really don't think this is worth it! I only added the starting values because they're simple, concise, informative, and provide added convenience compared to reading the HP/Pw tables, but your version doesn't seem to meet those criteria to me. Please reconsider. [[User:Tomsod\|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod\|talk]]) 20:57, 14 January 2026 (UTC)		Your edit seemingly aims to provide more detailed information, but it effectively just copies parts of the original HP and Pw tables. I cannot agree with this because your version provides no additional information over those two articles - in particular, readers will once again have to perform addition by themselves - and also because without at least briefly describing the whole algorithm of gaining HP and energy on a level up, the relevant table columns are both cryptic and incomplete. (I for one had to re-read the original pages to figure out what the headers mean, although I was also confused by the [[Wizard]] table being mangled.) If you truly want that data to be useful, you'd need to include mentions of constitution, wisdom, and the role energy modifiers, as well as how it all goes together, as which point you may well transclude the entire relevant sections, but I really don't think this is worth it! I only added the starting values because they're simple, concise, informative, and provide added convenience compared to reading the HP/Pw tables, but your version doesn't seem to meet those criteria to me. Please reconsider. [[User:Tomsod\|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod\|talk]]) 20:57, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	:Gave this a skim, and I'm willing enough to revert the changes in a while and then ponder if a compromise is possible—if not I'll live. I only leaned towards that level of detail in the first place since people in the past've gone to the trouble of crunching hard numbers on this sort of thing, so it's a bit of an ingrained habit. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom\|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom\|talk]]) 21:26, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:57, 14 January 2026
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	----		----
		+
		+	== HP and power of vanilla roles ==
		+
		+	Recently, I am somewhat demotivated to contribute to this wiki, because for each given edit, there's about 80% chance of Umbrie swooping with a follow-up fix, and a further 40% of the fix either outright reverting my change or mangling it beyond recognition. (It's as if you intend to write the entire wiki by yourself!) I ''try'' not to start edit wars over every conflict in opinion, but this time I have to debate on mine vs. your approach to adding data from [[Hit points]] and [[Energy]] to role-specific pages. Here goes:
		+
		+	The mechanics of HP and Pw gain are stated in a clear manner in their respective pages, but with them being somewhat complicated it may take a minute to figure out how a given role/race combination behaves. However, the starting values are relatively simple as the two (ranges of) numbers are simply added together; while explicitly writing the sums would save some mental effort for the readers, it would bloat the tables. I found that I'd still like to write them somewhere, as it would make eyeballing whether a given characters meets the thresholds of [[trouble\|16 HP]] and/or 5 Pw (important for pacifists and anyone else who plans to stay at XL1 for a while) somewhat easier. So the starting attributes sections on the role pages seemed like a good place, since it felt thematically appropriate each role would have a manageable number of relevant HP/Pw pairs. I did not copy the entire data on health and energy growth because it's complicated and less relevant.
		+
		+	Your edit seemingly aims to provide more detailed information, but it effectively just copies parts of the original HP and Pw tables. I cannot agree with this because your version provides no additional information over those two articles - in particular, readers will once again have to perform addition by themselves - and also because without at least briefly describing the whole algorithm of gaining HP and energy on a level up, the relevant table columns are both cryptic and incomplete. (I for one had to re-read the original pages to figure out what the headers mean, although I was also confused by the [[Wizard]] table being mangled.) If you truly want that data to be useful, you'd need to include mentions of constitution, wisdom, and the role energy modifiers, as well as how it all goes together, as which point you may well transclude the entire relevant sections, but I really don't think this is worth it! I only added the starting values because they're simple, concise, informative, and provide added convenience compared to reading the HP/Pw tables, but your version doesn't seem to meet those criteria to me. Please reconsider. [[User:Tomsod\|Tomsod]] ([[User talk:Tomsod\|talk]]) 20:57, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

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 -- [[User:New user message|New user message]] ([[User talk:New user message|talk]]) 01:41, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
 :Any new messages should go below this line and section. Please and thank you. --[[User:Umbire the Phantom|Umbire the Phantom]] ([[User talk:Umbire the Phantom|talk]]) 10:30, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
 ----