Forum:Pets carring loads

From NetHackWiki
Jump to: navigation, search

I saw some YASD where this guy had a bunch of giants carrying his dilithium crystals for him b4 he did something stupid and acended wrong. How do you make your pets carry your stuff? 02:21, September 23, 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps you are referring to DeathOnAStick. In general, for maximum pet carrying capacity, see Credit_cloning#Using_pets. For how to make pets pick up objects in the first place, see apport. Tjr 10:03, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
Actually, this is something I've wondered myself. Normal apport results in pets picking up items and dropping them. The apport comes into play to simulate "if I drop this item near the player, I may get a treat!". However the DeathOnAStick ascension seems to imply that the Giants (chosen because they like gems?) were to permanently hold onto several hundred gems each. The only time I've seen pets keeping inventory and never dropping it is for equipped items and a single unicorn horn. Even monsters that like an object will drop it; including arch liches that want the book of the dead. How exactly was he planning on using giants to transport the gems? -- Qazmlpok 21:01, September 23, 2010 (UTC)
Remember he only would have needed the giants to be carrying the bags on the turn he went up the staircase/through the portal; he could have used an Elbereth cage (with scrolls of scare monster for Air and Water) or a boulder fort to ensure their standing on the squares containing the bags of gems, and them simply waited for them all to be carrying their bags at the same time. Possibly training apport might have helped with that; he certainly would have had enough meatballs to train it to whatever level he wanted. For the portals, he could have just thrown the amulet onto the square with the portal, and then picked it up and gone through when ready. As for moving said bags of gems within the level, he would have been able to do that himself; the maximum a giant can carry is around 1400, which is moveable by a player. In fact that may explain why he used giants instead of dragons, which can carry considerably more.
This process might also explain why drinking that cursed potion of gain level would have been so devastating: not only might he not arrive with all his giants, but also they could easily have not been carrying their bags of holding. This may be why he 'lost' them at the portals.
If he had 8 blessed bags of holding, each weighing 1400, that equates to around 45000 gems. Add another that he himself could have carried, plus maybe another two from two leashed, non-adjacent giants, and you get 62000 or so. This certainly is more than anyone could have carried up via any other means. -Ion frigate 00:08, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Ascending with as many gems as possible is much simpler if they are created in the Astral Plane sanctuary. Recipe:
  • Rocks to polymorph come from stoning and smashing statues.
  • Chickatrice corpses: laying and hatching eggs.
  • Stonable monsters can be summoned by a ki-rin, which can't escape diagonally between boulders. This works beyond extinction.
  • Boulders are polymorphed statues (to keep the priest and the riders out of the way).
  • Giants: reverse genocide before they are extinct. Dragon eggs are likely better.
  • Items: rider farming or gifted spellbooks.
  • Curses: Magicbane and a sack.
Writing a bot to carry this out is left as an exercise for the people on #nethack. Tjr 02:07, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
This couldn't be done indefinitely though. Hatching eggs respects extinction, so after running through cockatrices and chickatrices, assuming you could stone a monster every turn, you'd have around 60000 statues or so (240 corpses lasting ~250 turns each). Also, you'd need a way to deal with the stoning-resistant monsters that can be created (iron golems and fire elementals, in particular, since they can't be genocided). And, if you're talking automation, you have to account for the fact that summoned cockatrices can stone you, possibly in sufficiently rapid succession so that prayer won't work the second time. Maybe you could use those corpses to create more statues, but again, that wouldn't be easy to automate.
A slow but fully automatable way to do this would be to isolate yourself (boulder fort, Elbereth cage, sanctuary, etc) and repeatedly cast dig at the ceiling. This creates a rock, and as far as I know it has no limits. One would obviously need to be a wizard to do this, needing hungerless casting for dig and the magic regeneration of the Eye. The damage done by the rock should be offset by one's natural healing (since a hard helmet limits it to d2, and you can't cast the spell more than once every 5-6 turns anyway, even with the Eye), but even if it's not, you could tell your bot to stop dropping rocks on your head if your health gets too low. Again, this method would be slow, but with automated praying and ring of slow digestion, it has no limits. -Ion frigate 06:27, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Cockatrices summoned by spellcasters don't respect extinction. To tune the relative probabilities, you could genocide other species. I'm simply assuming anybody capable of making it into the Astral Plane is able to kill a monster. Especially since angelic beings are the only ones that will put up a fight inside the temple. (Effectively only couatls after the rest are extinct. Cockatrices cannot actively stone you.)
Digging the ceiling will only work for 80k turns per spellbook, so it's not a fix-all. If you do go that route, it's probably worth it polymorphing/alchemizing potions for gain energy and gain level until your magical energy is near-infinite. Then confused charging is your best power source. (An infinite amount of magical tools can be made by repeatedly killing and resurrecting a unicorn.) Tjr 08:53, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Good point about the spellbook; I've been playing SLASH'EM too long - it would work there, because of the change in the spellcasting system (you only forget spells you don't use).
And you're right about summoned cockatrices; I had forgotten they couldn't actively stone you (and passive stoning requires stupidity on your own part) in a sanctuary. But still, is it possible to have a character so strong you can reliably leave the game automated while fighting couatls and iron/stone golems? Especially if there will be times when you have no cockatrice corpse to wield (after they are extinct, I could see more than 250 turns passing before one is summoned next to you)? -Ion frigate 19:23, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

With millions of hit points, you can. Tjr 22:05, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Why not just use a single nymph (which has infinite carrying capacity) to transport gems, instead of giants? 06:22, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Do nymphs pick up gems? I know they don't pick up potions, from experimentation from my TAS. (They'll steal them, but not pick them up off the ground.) Ais523 20:08, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
The idea was to use a tame nymph and a bag full of gems. Though I'm not sure the infinite carrying capacity applies to more than just stealing. --Tjr 13:08, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
It should. I've seen them carry plenty of heavy stuff. Polyselfing into any n also gives you 1000 carrying capacity to simulate their unlimited capacity. -- Qazmlpok 21:15, 25 October 2011 (UTC)