Talk:Alignment

This page says that lawful and neutral characters need to avoid shoplifting. I see two problems with this statement. Firstly, I don't think the term "shoplifting" is defined anywhere on this wiki, and clearing out a shop with the aid of a pet carries no penalty for anyone. Secondly, AFAIR the penalty for direct theft (the kind that gets the Kops after you) is 1 point of alignment if you are lawful, and I do not believe that neutrals are penalised at all. Ekaterin 09:28, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

I changed it a little bit to make it a little clearer, and also corrected the neutral thing. --MadDawg2552 01:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Oops, I might have confused murder and stealing from shops when editing this alignment page. Various sources agree with Ekaterin that neutrals have no penalty for direct theft. Apparently neutrals have some penalty for murder. Thanks for any corrections, Kernigh 05:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

The article states that the Law-Chaos alignment axis probably comes from D&D. While this is likely true, I think it may be useful to point out that D&D got the inspiration for this system from the stories of Poul Anderson and Michael Moorcock (from whom we also got Stormbringer, for example). Wikipedia has a discussion here.

I'm not a fan of the claim that "White unicorns are slightly more common than other colors, to compensate for the fact that they don't appear in Gehennom" is be an advantage to lawful types. I don't know about you, but when I was a lawful character and encountered a white unicorn, I groaned because it meant I couldn't kill it without suffering some consequences. I wanted hostile unicorns so I could kill them and get the extremely valuable horn. Lord Seth 07:40, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

"Compensate for" isn't "make up for:" it may or may not be a good thing, just a compensation. But I agree that killing the first unicorn you see is a priority so I get a pet to do it. I'm pretty sure that even large dogs and cats are capable of taking down a unicorn if you're fast enough to stay within 2 spaces and coerce the pet to get close (a leash is great). DemonDoll 13:23, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

That's also how I do it, but more because at that stage of the game, I'm not strong/fast enough myself. If you kill it yourself and you're not a pacifist, the alignment penalty is a joke, and the bad luck goes away fast enough, especially if you're just pushing Sokoban boulders around. -Tjr 16:10, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Well to be fair it does depend on your role. Fighting classes like Barbarians, Valkyries, and Knights can take them on directly at about the time you start seeing them. The reason I brought this up was because I've been often frustrated by encountering white Unicorns when I'm a Knight or Valkyrie, as I have the power to go in and kill them myself, but I don't want the luck penalty. In any case, I certainly don't think an increased chance of white unicorns early on would be an ADVANTAGE to being Lawful. Lord Seth 07:56, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Ok, I was thinking wizard-centric. If you are a good fighter and an impatient person, you could whack it just as much not to kill it and then let a pet or a trap take it out. If you do not have a stethoscope, you can test in wizard mode how often that is. To be fair, I haven't done that myself with unicorns, but as a pacifist, I take care of the Sokoban giant mimics in a similar fashion. -Tjr 10:33, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

I readded the advantage about white unis, and added a disadvantage to cover LordSeth's point. I still think being Lawful is an advantage uni-wise, because:

• You can throw it gems to compensate for the luck hit from killing it.
• You can just have your pet kill it. --Darth l33t 03:10, September 9, 2009 (UTC)