Forum:Any changes in favor of the player in 3.6.0?
I am by no means an expert player, but I am definitely an experienced player. I have played thousands of games of 3.4.3, and ascended many times, in a variety of roles (although not ALL roles), with multiple ascensions in a few roles.
I have played 3.6.0 hundreds of times and I've yet to ascend. My most recent loss that stunned me went like this: I was a level 16 Arc with 157 HP and an AC of -11 in the Arc quest, with EVERY SINGLE resistance except stoning resistance. I was twoweaponing with MagicBane (for magic resistance) and a silver saber and I was wearing an amulet of reflection. I had already cleared the mines AND Fort Ludios, killing multiple dragons, etc. I got to the Minion of Huhetotl without breaking much of a sweat, but in a matter of 3 or 4 turns, my HP went from 157 to 114 to 53 to 24 to dead - REALLY? The Minion summoned nasties (nothing TOO scary), and they did some of the damage, but with my AC of -11, I would have expected much less damage. I was wearing a ring of conflict and the nasties seemed much more interested in attacking me than attacking each other. Did conflict change from 3.4.3 to 3.6.0?
To the point of the title of this post - every change from 3.4.3 to 3.6.0 which I have encountered has been something to the disadvantage of the player, making the game harder, or possibly adding no value at all, such as the scrambling of scroll names, which serves no purpose I can see. Elbereth may as well just go away since a semi-permanent Elbereth can be scuffed just from standing on it ... which defeats its purpose. Oh, and inventory stacking is broken, unless it's been fixed in 3.6.1. For example, in 3.4.3, blanking a bunch of potions at a fountain and then doing "#adjust x x" would stack all the "uncursed potions of water" under "x" (if "x" started as an uncursed water), but it takes at least 2 and usually 3 tries in 3.6.0.
Were ANY of the changes in 3.6.0/3.6.1 intended to advantage the player? Or was the full intent of the version to make an already difficult game more difficult? I've gotten to the Astral Plane ONCE in 3.6.0, (and that was after finding a wand of wishing on level 3 or so), and I immediately died from Angel missiles. I had changed my cloak of magic resistance for an oilskin cloak in the Plane of Water, not realizing that I had to be WEARING the Eye of the Aethiopica for magic resistance in 3.6.0 instead of just carrying it. The portal in the Plane of Water appeared beneath me, I showed up in the Astral Plane generating conflict (without magic resistance) and I lasted, like, 2 more turns, my amulet of life saving disintegrated, and then I was done 2 or 3 turns later.
Is it my imagination? I feel like I have a pretty good sample size to compare, and it's something like one ascension every 30 or 40 games in 3.4.3 vs. ZERO ascensions in about 300 games in 3.6.0.
Respectfully,
Bone.Saw (talk) 19:25, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
- Addressing these one by one:
- 3.6 did not change conflict. Monsters can of course still resist the conflict on each turn and attack you, the same as before.
- The Minion gets 8d4 + weapon damage + 4d6 + weapon damage + 2d6 + its spell. If you're facing it and also other monsters (especially if one was something notoriously damage-spiky like a minotaur), losing 50-60 HP in a turn is unlucky but plausible at -11 AC. 3.6 did not change monster stats like attack damage.
- I don't know what you mean by "scrambling of scroll names". 3.6 did add additional scroll labels (such as PHOL ENDE WODAN :) but the randomization of label to scroll identity has been a fundamental part of the game for a long time.
- Semipermanent Elbereths could already be scuffed by standing on them, and that erosion rate is the same between 3.4.3 and 3.6. That said, 3.6.0 does have the unpopular mechanic where it has a chance to erode when it causes a monster to turn to flee. Because of that unpopularity, 3.6.1 changed Elbereth again, to a system where it'll erode if the player abuses their safe position.
- I think I remember something about an inventory stacking bug that was fixed in 3.6.1.
- The artifact MR stuff can be a gotcha if you're expecting them to behave the same way as in 3.4.3. Unless you're totally unspoiled, the only way to avoid gotchas like this is to check the patch notes/wiki/etc for different behaviors when there's an update. (Otherwise, the devs would never be able to make any changes in a new version that create gotchas.) The flip side of the artifact MR stuff is that you can now death-ray the Dark One and Master Kaen, since they don't get MR from just carrying them.
- All considered, I don't think there are many gameplay changes in 3.6.0 that are beneficial to the player. The one that comes to mind is the souped up effect of standing on a scroll of scare monster, where it's actually rather overpowered. Though there are interface improvements like status hilites, the #terrain, #overview and #annotate commands, and configurable MSGTYPEs. I don't think the devteam was necessarily aiming for "make the game more difficult" so much as "close off some of the exploits people have been complaining about forever and also it's been 12 years so let's get it released".
- My ultimate recommendation is to not play 3.6.0, since it's now outdated and was less popular than both 3.4.3 and 3.6.1. Play 3.6.1 instead, or play the 3.6.2 development version which contains more content and bug fixes. Or play a variant that tries to be nice to the player (my very biased recommendation is xNetHack). --Phol ende wodan (talk) 21:02, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
