User:The eternal paradox/YANIs

Hello!! Here I shall dump a bunch of thoughts (that will most likely work in *dNetHack than other variants, of course). I don't know about nice wiki formatting OR game balance; this is just stuff I think will be cool, so forgive me. Here we go.

Quest Ideas (most fitting for *dnh)

More or less references to other games that I enjoy and would like to see in *dNetHack, because race/role-specific quests exist there. riker pragmatically asked what these might contribute to the rest of the game, which I guess will be the next thing to think about after figuring out how exactly the quests should go.

I'd really appreciate it if anyone wants to help think these out, since as above, I really don't know about game balance, design, etc. :P My wish, of course, is to see them implemented; failing that, if I can create a documentation of these quests almost as if they actually existed, I would be greatly satisfied as well.

Dwarf Fortress (Boatmurdered)

You have been tasked by the king, Kadol Logemfikuk, to travel from the mountainhome and check on the outpost Koganusan, "Boatmurdered," that was sent out to the Smooth Points of Pride some years ago. You come upon an accursed, crumbling fortress, surrounded by blackened and charred earth for miles and miles.

Fast facts:

• Home: the capital of Kinmelbil, The Oaken Tomes
• Locate: the entrance to Boatmurdered (half the terrain is green and growing, the other half is completely dead and burnt; at the rightmost end lies the doors to the fortress. Think Arcadian fortress entry level in the law quest.)
• Goal: the large, unstable mined-out area near the lava flow
• Leader: Kadol Logemfikuk, ruler of Kinmelbil (I got the name from StarkRavingMad's entry, hopefully it's the king's real name. If I can get my hands on the save, I'll try to check.)
• Guardians: other dorfs
• Nemesis: Dodok Astlumash, the last survivor of Boatmurdered; a child whose grip on reality arguably never even manifested
• Quest monsters: elephants (in the first half), LOTS of undead-ish stuff, trolls, troglodytes, other stuff that spawns in abandoned fortresses (second half)
• Quest artifact: Ugithdostob, Boatmurdered's second artifact (the first one was a table bro)

Ugithdostob, "Necroclearings," unidentified appearance "spiked red-gem amulet" (not sure what the actual gem type is, because red spinel doesn't exist in NetHack). When read, it ought to say, "This is a red spinel amulet. All craftsdwarfship is of the highest quality. This object menaces with spikes of red spinel, aquamarine, crystal glass, and green glass." Will think of stuff it can do later.

Role/race combo: my thought was Dwa Bar, since the other two notable dwarf roles already have a special quest. Would have to force like a neutral dwarf, though. But it could work (according to Noisytoot).

Addition: Boatmurdered is genuinely a horrifying place. It should damage sanity or raise insight, though the latter is possible only if the veil has been lifted. Would it be too much to force the veil to be lifted upon reaching the locate level, instead of being under the player's control, as in most games (i.e. you can choose whether to go to the Lost Cities or not)? idk

Another note: should this role have a special interaction with Slave to Armok? Maybe it's guaranteed to generate in a special way in the quest? Maybe it gets buffed?

Final thing for today: man, if only there were floor coatings in *dnh. And if only walls could be read and looked at (cos of the one bajillion engravings in Boatmurdered). Regardless, there should be a LOT of random objects cast about: some fine items, some food, corpses, bones, tattered clothes, abandoned weapons, remnants of workshops, etc. etc. If it's not too generous, perhaps some of the other Boatmurdered artifacts could have a chance of spawning? Ok, wait, I might have to revise the QA and choose something more unique.

What it adds to the rest of the game

riker & lapis gave the suggestion that dwarves should be smiths and can do fun smith stuff. In particular, they can work mithril (found in other dwarf-role combo quests) and adamantine (DF material that should make an appearance in DF quest, which Chris suggested should be able to hit every material vulnerability); this would help with the "adding more content to the rest of the game/other roles" problem I mentioned earlier.

Thus, Sankis, the legendary engraver and former ruler who drank from lava and began the tantrum spiral that doomed the fortress, is in fact still prowling the halls. He should be a hidden, "extra" nemesis, locked away somewhere. He guards the adamantine stock of the fortress (I know, Boatmurdered never actually mined any adamantine, but if this is the only DF-location reference in the entire game, it's got to have adamantine).

Submachine

Some quick background on the Submachine game series: the Submerged Machine (the Submachine, also the Subnet as a wider environment) is an unimaginably large underground network of machines and rooms that has been there forever and grows on its own and does other inexplicable things. In the original series, you (a human, probably) are a single explorer who tries to figure out its secrets by following the most influential former explorers, Murtaugh and Elizabeth. Within the game, these explorers are referred to as the "human infestation" by the Submachine itself. Therefore, to make things a little interesting, the *dnh implementation will see the PC siding with the machine and dealing with the human infestation.

You are a Clk character (may be role-specific, most probably Kni) recalled to their home, the Submachine, by S.H.I.V.A., its AI. The PC is a sub-bot, which are bots made by the Submachine in order to maintain itself. Reality is warping and restructuring itself due to heavy human traffic and their use/study of karma, so you must drive out/defeat the humans, locate Murtaugh--the one who started it all--and claim from him the karma stabilizer, which will stop the Submachine from falling apart.

Fast facts:

• Home: S.H.I.V.A. access point
• Locate: the Knot
• Goal: the Core
• Leader: S.H.I.V.A. (UPDATE: I kinda want to make S.H.I.V.A. the lawful god instead. Perhaps just make a generic, albeit old, sub-bot the leader instead?)
• Guardians: other sub-bots (clockwork automata)
• Nemesis: Murtaugh
• Quest monsters: human explorers
• Quest artifact: karma stabilizer

Nemesis

Murtaugh should be a mean spellcaster. He is generated invisible, pretty speedy, and in addition to most monster spells, casts a heck of a lot of spatial manipulation spells (i.e. he teleports, flings you around, does the space-blades thingy, possibly acts like a uranium imp too). If possible, the terrain should have a chance to shift and react to him each time he casts a space spell. He will leave no corpse, as the defeat message will be flavored as him using his arm to create another portal and escaping the Core, marking the success of your quest.

Quest Structure

It's the Submachine series but you essentially play it backwards. The upper filler levels refer to Sub10, the locate Sub9 (the Knot), the lower filler levels Sub8 (various layers), and the goal Sub7 (the Core). Perhaps in the filler levels you have to deliberately break and scatter objects-- and you need to do enough before you're allowed to keep progressing--but that isn't necessary (and honestly might be annoying). In the Knot, the impact of karma on reality is palpable, which is BAD because it SHOULDN'T be possible to destabilize the Knot. Finally, when you get to 7, you've reached the Core, and here you chase Murtaugh out from the heart of the Subnet.

However, what particularly sets this quest apart from others is that the non-home levels aren't connected by up/down stairs; you have to find the portal machine in each level and use the connection pod to get to the next level. I really still want there to be something reminiscent of the 3-digit coordinates of the lab portal (it's human-built, so the PC sub-bot would not conceivably have access to it, but a. it's a big thing in the original games and b. there ought to be some way to interface with the portal machines outside of "just plug it in"). Maybe the "find the clues around the level" thing can still be implemented, idk. (It may also be that I scrap this entire thing and leave it to be mundane upstairs & downstairs filler levels, but that's the last thing I want to do...)

Also: if possible, can there be multiple possible selections for the filler levels? I.e. each quest plays a little differently? This might make it too complex (for both the player and whoever decides to code this, which may well end up being me, lol).

There should be dangerous terrain and lots of broken things, scrap, etc. lying around in the quest, to show how badly reality has been damaged.

More Combo-specific Things

Given that this is a role/race-specific storyline, obviously things about the role have to be reflavored. For instance, the starting equipment, the pantheon, etc...

Luckily, Clk Kni can only be lawful, and they better not be able to convert to chaotic like other knights. I'm not sure exactly who the gods should be, as there still aren't a lot of characters in Submachine; they could be locations, given sentience? Not sure. But anyhow, there are certain things--particularly artifacts--that I would like to implement:

• Quest artifact: the karma stabilizer (yes, I'm writing about the details here), unidentified appearance "cyan-glowing iron lantern" (plain ol' "iron lantern" if it's turned off). Only magical darkness can force it to go out. On carry: MR, teleport control, half spell damage, maybe one other magic-related thing. While lit: permanent light source like a magic lamp, passive regeneration for mechanical monsters in radius (including you, of course), one more thing or two. Invoke: branchport, or if that's overused, somehow restructure the space around you?? It feels kinda weak rn, have to think more.
• First gift: a multitool (somewhat like the Nobles' first gift), perhaps named "the first multitool," unidentified appearance "[form of object] emblemed with a many-armed eye." Not sure about all the forms it can take, but one must be a spear (spears get messy in n/ndnh though, might make it a weapon-tool), where it is flavored as a connection pod. The connection pod is a necessary tool for interface with the portals in the quest, as above. It can also be used to interface with other mechanical monsters in the main dungeon, as below. Obviously, the multitool should also be able to transform into weapons that knights can use skillfully.
• Crowning artifact: a wisdom gem, unidentified appearance "cyan-glowing gem," with a dilithium crystal as its base item. Can be placed into the QA to make the stabilizer's light fully permanent, as well as expanding the radius and making it even stronger in some way. On its own, the gem can be used to either charge things or to refill your own energy. It would be funny if it enhanced wisdom too. Maybe you can place it into yourself (by eating it or something??? idk lol) to gain special powers of your own? Would it be OP to grant preservation if the gem is placed into QA/you?

What it adds to the rest of the game

Sub-bots should be part of random monster generation, and they drop connection pods. Any role can use these to interface with other mechanical monsters. Currently, the only ideas I have are:

• Use on (maybe only peaceful?) clockwork factories to produce a single tool of your choice
• Use on the statues of war machines in the law quest to revive and tame them?

This next idea is a holdover from my first draft of the whole Submachine idea ("fix the machine" quest instead of "drive out the humans" quest). I want clockwork crafting to be more cool and viable in *dnh; currently, you can build really weak things with clockwork components. I think there should be EVEN MORE mechanical monsters, and some of them are actually worth building and using as pets. Maybe, like UH, there's a "tinkering" skill that Clk Kni have complete access to (& other roles/races limitedly so--maybe gnomes can do it somewhat?), which allows you to use clockwork components in addition with other things to make cool stuff (w/ upgrade kits, perhaps). Maybe any weapon & armor can be made clockwork this way, which grant certain bonuses, and you can craft artis too, but only a few.

• Clockwork armor set: helm, gauntlets, body armor, and boots.
• Clockwork blade, a mechanical long sword. Er the attached gears grind into an enemy's flesh and deals extra damage. If this doesn't take 32 clockwork components to make, I will be upset

Under the light of the quest artifact, these should do something cool. Maybe they act as living items? Maybe they automatically repair erosion & re-enchant (up to the highest you've already enchanted it) over time? Could just be extra energy damage. Who knows!

UPDATE about the tinkering idea: random thought, but what if instead of being specific to this role and gnomes, it was available to those PLUS ALL LAWFULS? In *dnh machines are already strongly correlated with law. To make this cooler: what if you cannot advance, nor keep skill levels, unless you were "sufficiently" lawful (taking into account alignment, sins, and stuff)? In fact: what if every alignment had some kind of special (crafting, probably) skill like this that was dependent on alignment? :)

Something something Chinese mythology

OK, I actually remember having this idea a few years back, but completely forgot about it until I looked at Vinyl's thing about Slavic folklore. I can't recall any exact ideas, but there was something about Nian (年), the monster after which "new year's" is named, and how there might be a "hero of the new year" kind of story to play through? If anyone's interested, or if/when I finish fleshing out the above two ideas, I'll take a closer look at this.

Alternative Soko Puzzles (punny)

I think Antigulp keeps bringing this up (see this quote), i.e. punny Sokoban alternatives, because most of us HATE it... along with Submachine above (to keep the puzzle spirit of the original series), I am also simply a pun monster & so am happy it jump in on this thread. My one recommendation so far:

• Smockoban: for implementation in CrecelleHack. You have to paint the floor to match the target image by using potion splashes (or you can pour out potions onto a singular tile). You could probably do some kind of pixel art. It would be HILARIOUS if floor alchemy were not disabled on this level. (As it happens, aosdict actually said this same thing in that quote above... but with Crecelle, it might be real now!!)

Other, random names that I think could have something real made out of them: clockoban. Mockoban. Rockoban (but it's about the music, not rocks, as seen in the quote). Vrockoban? JABBERWOCKOBAN? Moppoban? Flockoban? Hawkoban? On the other end: sokobash (a wrestler's level, could go well in Crecelle)? Sokobang (shooting range)? Sokobanana (idek what's going on here)? Sokobandit? Sokobend? Sokoblast--waitno this is just Lokoban v1 again.

More Bird

Originally contained in the section below this one, I feel like I can brainstorm enough funny stuff to see full implementation in CrecelleHack, since the point is to make monsters more diverse and interesting. Antigulp told me to make an issue on Github, but I don't have an account and I feel silly about it at the moment, and anyway I want to come up with a more formidable list with more details before making any moves :P

More birds. I want to see aggressive Canadian geese. I want to see peacocks. I want to see baby fulmars that throw up on you. How does NetHack not have a phoenix?

Misc. Ideas

A smattering of smaller things (mostly vibes lol) to suggest.

• More physics jokes, I'm a big nerd... I made a suggestion about a classical mechanic monster once. The short story is that they attack by running into you and "conserving momentum" by bumping you back a few squares. Could write more about this.
• (*dnh) MORE Lovecraft. I once talked about the story he wrote where it's the wizard who cursed the protagonist's family such that every one of them would die by age 30, and the big reveal was the wizard breaking into their house to kill them... where is the goofy Lovecraft. And, where is the epic Lovecraft? Dream-Quest of Kadath, hello? (Ok, Nyar and gugs and nightgaunts and things already come from it, but it's moreso the setting and also DREAM part of the title I wish to see more of.)
• (*dnh) On that note: more dreamlike vibes? Liminal spaces and all that. This suggestion is definitely least fleshed out, but I just want insight to be not all scary things haha
• (possibly *dnh but not necessarily) More SCP references because there are only a few in *dnh and they are hard to find/recognize.
• (*dnh) MORE alternates for the challenge level. Thx to riker for mentioning Echo and Synesthesia for previously suggested alternatives; gonna try to work on them, or dream up something else...