Talk:Alchemy

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Usefulness of Gain Level

This article asserts that alchemizing for potions of gain level is not worth it. I happen to disagree, and I would very much like to see the author of this claim justify it.

The inputs to a potion of gain level are potions of levitation and enlightenment. Levitation is something that even the potion of levitation page admits is useless, and the only benefit of enlightenment is that it raises intelligence and wisdom when blessed (the self-knowledge part of the potion is much better accomplished with a wand of enlightenment). The problem is that potions of enlightenment are so rare that the number of opportunities for stat boost is just not worth it. In most cases it's worth mixing a single potion of enlightenment with a much larger stack of potions of levitation to get gain level.

In fact, even if your main aim is to get the stat boost, it's often better to alchemize for potions of gain level anyway, since gain level can mix with full healing to produce gain ability, and gain ability raises all your stats, not just intelligence and wisdom.

Gain level is very useful not only for the (obvious) level gain but also because cursed gain level lets you (literally) ascend the dungeon quickly. If your alchemy attempt fails, you will either end up with a stack of random potions (30% of the time) or an explosion that loses one of each potion (10% of the time). In the latter case, you can just alchemize again, and in the former case, well, you were going to blank those potions of levitation anyway, so the only loss is the potion of enlightenment that you were dipping into. In most cases I would gladly trade a potion of enlightenment for a 60% shot at a stack of potions of gain level, and I can't see why someone would claim otherwise. Djao 09:24, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, since nobody has come forth to defend the article text, I went ahead and reversed the offending text. I also cleaned up the rest of the article and fixed a number of other bugs in the process. Djao 21:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Merits of Sickness

I also disagree with calling the potion of sickness recipe "mostly useless". Although !oS aren't everyone's cup of tea, poisoned missile weapons are strictly superior to unpoisoned if you're not lawful, plus it's nice to have a few to chuck at your quest nemesis or Death. Besides, !oFJ are even LESS useful and hard to dilute, so it's not like you're losing much. --66.23.133.55 16:09, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Recursive Enlightenment

I posit that the "difficult" recipe to make enlightenment isn't as hard as the author implies. While it's true that only 30% of your _first_ dip become enlightenment, recall that 2.5% become sickness, which can become fruit juice (for free). This, plus your original fruit juice and extra speed can become booze, which combine with the 60% of your original alchemy (and your randomly generated booze) to form a frankly massive stack of booze. One valuable potion of enlightenment is required to turn these into confusion, allowing you to try for enlightenment again. Repeat this cycle a few times, and most of your potions do in fact make it to enlightenment. (which you can further alchemize into gain level, of course.)64.81.96.143 02:21, October 8, 2009 (UTC)

Stacking

Here's the original message that was in the article itself, which I think was written by Rogerb-on-NAO: While excellent in many ways, this article does not mention stacking, and in fact appears to assume alchemy consists of dipping a single potion into another single potion. Stacking potions properly before alchemy is essential to get the most out of the technique.

My response: I've done a few alchemy experiments in wizard mode to see if stacking really made a difference. When I mixed a potion of speed with 3 potions of healing (i.e. #dip'd PoS into PoH), I got a potion of extra healing, with the 2 remaining potions of healing left alone. However, when I mixed 3 potions of healing with a potion of speed (i.e. #dip'd PoH into PoS), I got 3 potions of extra healing! It seems that stacking (and what dips into what) really matters when it comes to alchemy! I'll add some info about what I discovered into the article. Thank you for noting about the benefit of stacking potions before mixing them, Rogerb-on-NAO! :) —Shijun 07:44, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
After doing some more experiments, I found out that just dipping any number (n) of potions (as long as that number is greater than one) will consume just one receiving potion, leaving the other potions in that stack alone and giving me n new potions. A one-for-one mixing happens only when you dip one potion into any stack of any number of receiving potions. —Shijun 08:10, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Color Alchemy

@Play #7 talks about color alchemy patch. It might be good to mention it here.

I just did this (though using the UnNetHack documentation). --User:Chelseafan528 16:57, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

minor points

I'm not sure how to mention this without cluttering the article up:

  • emphasize input potions may already be diluted if attempting the more useful recipes.
  • blessed gain ability is useful in the late game if you want to eat jewelry: If you become a new <race> on polyself, you most likely will not have maxed out attributes afterwards.

Tjr 15:51, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Slash'Em Gem Identifying?

In Slash'EM, the article says dipping a gem into a potion will change its colour and resultantly the actual potion it is. So would dipping unidentified gems (As in could be worthless glass OR a valuable gem) at least allow you to manually identify them? Or would unid'd gems not have an effect? In this case Slash'EM makes gem identifying easier if what I suggested is true. --82.20.24.40 07:04, 16 May 2009 (UTC)

Re: Slash'Em Gem Identifying?
Yes but only works for potion of acid as article says

SLASH'EM Number of Gems/Potions

Do you need one potion of acid for every gem you want to convert, or can you use one potion of acid for an entire stack of stones and get a stack corresponding potions? --AileTheAlien 17:51, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

One potion of acid and one gem gives you one new potion. You can't use stacks in the recipes at all. -- Qazmlpok 18:05, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

slashem amnesia alchemy

"however the vapors caused by an explosion will cause you to forget spells, items and levels" Is it really true vapors of amnesia will delete your spells? In vanilla, that's reserved to the blessed scroll only. --Tjr 09:37, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Yep, just confirmed it in wizard mode. Starting wizard lost all 4 spells. It seems to be somewhat random; I'm not losing a spell every time but it does happen. -- Qazmlpok 12:51, 18 September 2011 (UTC)