Talk:DNetHack artifacts

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General dNethack Artifact Discussion

Here's a link to a discussion/brainstorming document for dNethack artifacts, with an authorship colour legend at the top of the pad. --Tarmunora (talk) 18:46, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Artifact DSM are OP compared to any non-artifact armor

I have to point out there is an unfortunate flaw (I think it's a flaw, maybe it's intended to work that way) in the current artifact armors.

I really like the way normal armors were rebalanced so you are encouraged to actually try a different late-game or ascension set than a GDSM/SDSM. Both mithril-coats and plate mails in dNet rock, each in a specific way that makes them competitive with DSM.

However, and there is where I see the flaw in design, there are the artifact dragon scale mails. They simply have no competitor - their effects are very strong and they are a huge boon for any character of the right alignment. But as dNet allows you to wish for them, I find them to be the new GDSM/SDSM. If there were no artifact DSM, I'd think about what armor to go for in the end-game, especially now that MR/reflection can be taken from other sources. But with artifact DSM, the first wish goes to one of them and I won't take them of for the rest of the game no matter what. They have both great defensive and offensive capabilities, so no normal armor can really compare.

Anyway, I think this should be addressed, especially as with the many weapon artifacts and broadened ascension kit in dNet, it seems the goal is to make more choices viable. I'd never suggest to nerf the armors, they are very nice the way they are. Instead, one of the following might work:

  • make the armors unwishable and only possible to obtain as a crowning gift; that would make sense as they are a powerful artifact of the given alignment, so receiving them as a possible gift while crowned the champion of an alignment makes sense; note that they must be only possible, not guaranteed gift, or nothing really changes,
  • make them unwishable with a chance to appear in the Castle's armory, where they will still impact the late game, but the player has to earn them by getting all the way down tot he Castle; still no guarantees,
  • make all artifacts unwishable by non-wands means (a bit like UnNetHack, but there no magical items are wishable without a wand of wishing), so that you need to find a wand of wishing with low enough artifact count to be able to wish for any artifact; that would both limit the availability of the armors and result in hard decisions, as there are so many delicious artifacts in dNet; because that is a nerf to getting artifacts, I would also suggets increasing the chances of artifacts generating in the dungeon.

I personally like the third idea, even though it's the most drastic. It makes you live with what you can get, with a rare chance to cheat fate if you get to a /wish soon enough. With more random artifacts, you'd also get to use them more, as with not guaranteed wished-for artifacts, you might actually stick with a non-standard randomly generated artifact instead of wishing for the one you like the best / always use.

TL,DR: Platinum and Chromatic Dragon Scale Mails are OP! :D

--Red kangaroo (talk) 09:11, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

As of version 3.13, the artifact dragon scale mails are unwishable and found in only some games. The Platinum Dragon Plate shows up (guarded by the Platinum Dragon) in a short sub-branch above the Law Quest in 1/8th of games. The Chromatic Dragon Scales are now dropped by the Chromatic Dragon. Cavemen will therefore always get this artifact after killing their quest nemesis. Other roles will find the Chromatic Dragon on the first "Hell" level in gehennom in 1/8th of games (independent of the Platinum Dragon showing up).

--Chris (talk) 20:24, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

YANI -- Artifact Neutral DSM

  • Ancient Dragon Scales
  • neutral gray dragon scales
    • Can be converted to Chromatic Dragon Scale Mail or Chromatic Dragon Scale Shield via the usual methods
    • Grants MR because of base item
  • +6 AC (scales grant AC of mail)
  • Grants wisdom boost
    • +1 per enchantment point
  • Boosts spellcasting as robe
  • Half physical damage
  • Half again as heavy as normal dragon scale (making it 225 units vs the normal 150)
  • Can only be picked up by chaotic characters with at least a 20 alignment record (eligible for quest) and enough experience to no long be considered a beginner.
    • Will sometimes blast cross-aligned characters when they are hit in combat (1/10 chance per hit)

Catullus (talk) 23:35, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Studied Debuff

Thanks doyoumind for Reddit post explaining that the studied debuff increases damage dealt by other monsters of that kind. Wikid (talk) 19:21, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Ah, actually it increases damage dealt and to-hit for anyone attacking the victim. So if you have 'studied 10' anything that attacks you gets +10 to-hit and deals +10 damage on a hit. The studied debuff goes away at a rate of 1 point per move, and is also decreased by 1 for any successful attack against you. Ditto for you attacking a monster with the studied debuff; you get increased to-hit and damage.--Chris (talk) 19:27, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Stuff of the Archmagi

The Staff of the Archmagi seems to have been compiled out of the current version, i.e., there is no effect of thusly naming a quarterstaff as a level 30 wizard. Whereas the Hat and Robe don't seem to be nameable, i.e., they either already exist somewhere in this game, or they can no longer be created by naming. I thought Rodney might be wearing them, so I tried stealing his clothes as an oread, but Rodney didn't seem to be wearing anything. Comments? Wikid (talk) 06:40, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Rodney has them in his tower (not worn iirc) in 10% of games. Also they're overpowered as shit so of course they aren't nameable. I can't test right now but they should still be in the game, try wizmode wishing. Also the robe is the cha monk crowning gift (law/neu get GM robe). --EasterlyIrk (talk) 09:05, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks! Wikid (talk) 09:17, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Oh also the staff is now called "the Staff of Wild Magic", it was renamed for some reason. I had forgotten that but the page is updated now. --EasterlyIrk (talk) 20:36, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Hah! Can't name that one either ("Staff of Wiud Magic"). Either because it already exists in the game or (more likely to my mind), level 30 Wizard naming privileges have been revoked. It must be a lot harder to get these non-wishable artefacts. Perhaps I messed up the Crowning Wikid (talk) 20:53, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

The source hints that they just aren't possible to get outside of the wizard's tower so I moved them there on the wiki page. IIRC the robe was _going_ to be the crowwning gift for wiz, but it was changed to one of the artifact spellbooks (a random one). Sadly, I don't think you can get them in the current version. --EasterlyIrk (talk) 20:58, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Good one! Wikid (talk) 21:46, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

What are "the normal benefits" for rakuyo?

BDD says "Has all the normal benefits/penalties of a rakuyo/rakuyo-saber, including insight bonuses", but nowhere else on the wiki are rakuyos mentioned. --Testbutt (talk) 18:49, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

tried to add links, think i broke the page

[[Category:DNethack_Quests|Quest]]s <-- is that not proper formatting for a wiki link? --Testbutt (talk) 21:20, 5 July 2020 (UTC)