Talk:Holding attack

• do you need to move towards a monster that is holding you in order to hit it with your weapon? for example, if you step on a magic trap that blinds you and generates a rope golem, could it take up to eight turns of choking to free yourself? --195.50.80.61 11:13, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, no. You move on the monster's square to attack it, but it only takes very few turns to free yourself: engrave "ElberethElbereth" with a fast method (dust) after unblinding yourself. If you can't yet unblind yourself, you are probably best off running for the nearest corridor or corner before the golem grabs you (stethoscope, telepathy). If you're blind and already choking, you could pray right away to unblind yourself, then engrave ElberethElberethElb in the dust. Tjr 12:01, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Drowning attacks

Most times a sea monster attacks you, it simply "brushes against your <leg>". The article doesn't describe how often the first step of the drowning occurs. From my source diving:

• First, the monster must hit you with the AD_WRAP attack. Your AC helps prevent this from landing in the first place.
• You must not be polymorphed into a creature with a holding attack of your own - STCK, WRAP, and HUGS.
• You must not be stuck to another monster.
• There is a 9 in 10 chance that the monster will simply brush against your leg. This never does damage and won't wear off grease.
• On that 1 in 10 remaining chance, the eel will either "swing itself around you", or be stopped by your grease. Grease is always effective but has a 50% chance to wear off at this stage.

And if all of that happens, you are now stuck to the creature. You will always drown on the creature's next turn if it is standing over water and you can't survive underwater. As a minor aside that I haven't verified, the player should still die on land, so if it leaves a bones the recipient doesn't need to go swimming to get the equipment.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any count before I update the article. Source for most of this is mhitu.c, 1220. the sticks function for the STCK, WRAP, HUGS immunity is in mondata.c, 297. -- Qazmlpok 03:16, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Where does magic cancellation come in? In my observation, MC3 significantly reduces the drowning rate. --Tjr 19:47, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't. The code checks for cancellation but not MC - this is consistent with the articles on cancellation and magic cancellation as well. I'm pretty sure AC is the only protection besides grease (and proper discretion, of course), but I'm not positive AC is a factor.

One other addition; in SLASH'EM there is a rnl() < 5 chance of avoiding the initial holding attack if you have free action. -- Qazmlpok 20:59, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I've finally had a chance to test this so I'm going to update the article. Some findings/confirmations:

• AC does protect against the drowning attack. At both stages - even after it has wrapped around you, the eel can still miss. This should never be counted upon, of course; with -81 AC I drowned after about 5 attacks after the initial hit.
• Size has no effect. A dragon can still be drowned, despite being gigantic.
• Possessing a holding attack of your own does indeed prevent the eel's holding attack. If you are already being held you are silently released. So polymorphing into a huge monster won't save you (like with engulfers) but polymorphing into an owlbear will. -- Qazmlpok 22:45, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

teleport/levelport/branchport as escape method

I don't see the article doesn't list self teleport/levelport/branchport as an escape method, but they all work, right? If they don't work, that would be worth mentioning, as well. Also, if you or the monster is teleported, but after the 'port, it just so happens that the monster is still adjacent to you, is the monster still grabbing you? or does the 'port always cause a release?Derekt75 (talk) 18:40, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Wizard mode is showing teleportation working fine. Even if you teleport next to the monster, you are still released. -- Qazmlpok (talk) 23:44, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Are you sure that wizard mode will be accurate, though? It allows teleportation on non-teleport levels, for instance. -Ion frigate (talk) 00:53, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

teleport.c, line 267, teleport.c, line 965. Yes, I'm sure. That'd be an odd thing to special case, after all. -- Qazmlpok (talk) 13:38, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

NetHack 3.7

In Nethack 3.7, I can confirm that a giant eel can wrap around you in its first attack and drown you the next turn, even with AC -21. I'm not sure if that's a change or just really unlucky RNG. --Thidwick (talk) 08:55, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Heavily inclined to lean towards bad luck - high AC doesn't completely eliminate the chance for monsters to hit you, and changes to the speed system make this possible in my opinion (but esp. so if you're impaired, burdened or otherwise slowed). --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 09:03, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

Looks like there was only time for one action. The action chosen was to make a melee attack; the player had speed and was unencumbered, so that wasn't totally unreasonable. The wand of teleportation was out of charges, but the wand of cold would have saved the player. --Testbutt (talk) 17:32, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

• The giant eel swings itself around you!
• What do you want to use or apply? [ehj-mpsuvDK-MPUW or ?*]
• In what direction?
• Status of the giant eel (neutral): Level 7 HP 37(37) AC -1, holding you.
• You hit the giant eel!
• The giant eel misses!
• The giant eel drowns you...

You got it Testbutt. Here's the Dumplog link for reference: [1]. Wand of cold would have been smart. Thank you for benefit of the doubt, but my melee attack was ignorant and arrogant--I thought I had a few turns...haven't been drowned in years. You'll note the can of grease. Can you grease your cloak while grabbed to stop drowning?

--Thidwick (talk) 18:44, 19 December 2020 (UTC)