User talk:Ion frigate

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Hi! Welcome, and thanks for contributing to NetHackWiki!

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I'm really happy to have you here, and look forward to working with you! -- Paxed (Talk) 13:58, December 22, 2009

Observations about Crawl: The interface is much, much better than nethack's. [...] Pressing ^p brings up a full-screen display of your latest messages, instead of one by one.
Options msg_window=reversed in nethack - Cheers 11:19, April 9, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for fleshing out the Tools table

You were very prompt. Thefifthsetpin 01:51, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome! The table format makes it much easier to give that information, so thanks for doing that. -Ion frigate 22:08, September 26, 2010 (UTC)


Hi, would you like to become an admin? Discussion here: Forum:New_admins. --Tjr 21:34, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

I'd be willing to do that; this wiki is pretty quiet, so I don't imagine it'd be a huge time-suck or anything like that. -Ion frigate 14:26, 4 October 2011 (UTC)


So my account may very well have been hacked. The password has been changed, and apparently the email has been cleared. I'd suggest removing the admin bit in the meantime. Ask me anything to confirm that this is me. - 06:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

EMail me (paxed at alt) from the email you used for your NAO username and I'll manually reset your password. --paxed 06:51, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
I have two separate email addresses (one is very obviously my screenname); I can't honestly remember which one I used, so I'll email you from both.
Done, I think.

Acid Mage role

...still exists in THEM, and I had literally just tagged it for a retool before you went and deleted it. The talk page I linked you to outright discusses as much, saying that the SLEX content should be removed while leaving everything else. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 22:50, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Yes, I saw that - I just didn't know that one is in THEM (haven't played it, and it wasn't mentioned in the article itself). I'm going to let you go through and tag the articles in that category before I start deleting them (I undeleted the Acid Mage pages). Thanks for your help here! Ion frigate (talk) 22:52, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Sure - just double-check the repo if you're not sure something still exists within THEM that was in SLEX. You want the "develop" branch to be absolutely clear - I should have everything properly tagged in one pass, but that's there in case I miss anything. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 22:54, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
As for Amy's userpages... I don't know actually. I'm inclined to leave them, but probably worth asking other admins/users about - can't say for sure. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 23:29, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, my view is that those are certainly less urgent, since they shouldn't be indexed by Google and casual readers of the wiki wouldn't find them. Ion frigate (talk) 23:37, 4 October 2022 (UTC)
Turns out they're only categorized in the first place because they were direct-linked rather than given a leading colon to pothole them properly - solves that problem, and I'm done with de-SLEXing the relevant pages in those categories - do what you please with the rest. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 00:33, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Deferred SLEX features

What do you (and others but I'm leading with you first) say to listing the really sparse stuff that's deferred/commented out in SlashTHEM on its own article? --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 03:31, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Yeah I think that's a good idea, something like Deferred feature (SlashTHEM). I'm going to finish what I'm doing for now (there's only five or so articles left), but feel free to combine those articles into one, and redirect the stubs there. Ion frigate (talk) 03:33, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

Talk page deletion

Not that I think it's pressing we go over the talk pages of articles we agreed to remove and undo it all immediately, but in the future would it be fine to leave a deleted article's talk page up if there's discussion on it related to why it was deleted? --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 12:35, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

I'm not averse to preserving deletion discussions, but I personally don't want to leave talk pages for (now) non-existent articles. The standard practice on Wikipedia is to have a deletion discussion in project space (Articles for Deletion), and link to that discussion in the deletion summary. While I don't think we need to implement a formal AfD system like Wikipedia has, perhaps we could make a project page to archive deletion discussions to? That way, anyone looking to create the page will see a link showing why it was deleted.
If there are concerns about preserving talk page history, we could instead move the talk pages to somewhere in project space - something like moving it to NetHackWiki:Deleted_article_discussions/Item_(SLASH'EM Extended). I just don't want to leave orphaned talk pages in article talk space - though if the general consensus is to do so, I'll go along with it. Ion frigate (talk) 18:35, 6 October 2022 (UTC)
I don't see why talk pages need to be deleted. Wikipedia is orders of magnitude larger than NetHackWiki is and ever will be, so it needs orders of magnitude more bureaucracy. On our relatively small wiki, anybody interested in goings-on can usually keep up with Special:RecentChanges by just checking it once per day (or even once per week, when there's not a massive project like deslexing going on), so we don't really need a central place like AfD for people to find deletion discussions. The deletion process is basically to tag stuff with Template:Delete, and if anybody contests it, they can remove the tag and give a reason in the edit summary, or discuss it on the most natural place to do so – the talk page, which is also a natural place for someone to look for a deletion discussion after the page is deleted (if there is not a link to the discussion in the deletion reason, which there is in most of the recent slex-related deletions). We could have a category to keep track of talk pages containing deletion discussions.
We could have admins do something like moving the deletion discussion to some other place and linking it in the deletion reason if they really don't like orphaned talk pages, but I think that is just unnecessary work for negligible (if any) benefit. However, if the admins want to do it that way, they're the ones who have to do it, and I don't oppose it. Cathartes (talk) 01:08, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
Alright, it seems that's the general consensus here. I'm undeleting the first talk page (Talk:Kobolt) I deleted, since that was where I asked what was happening with the SLEX articles (I hadn't known about the whole fracas before that). Most the other articles I deleted didn't have talk pages, and of those that did I'm pretty sure most or all weren't deletion discussions, but let me know if there any others you think should be undeleted. In the future, I'll leave talk pages up if there are deletion discussions on them. Ion frigate (talk) 05:35, 7 October 2022 (UTC)

Hits as +x/need +x to hit

Since you know SLASH'EM more than I do and tend to be more active on the wiki, mind looking over those articles and the related pages I touched up? --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 16:34, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

No problem. Found some more peculiarities in wizard-mode testing, actually. -Ion frigate (talk) 00:28, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Magic portal placement

> (i feel like "only one portal per level" is some arcane artifact of nethack's dungeon generation code, but i can't find it)

It's not the portal placement that's the problem. You could have multiple portals on the same level even in vanilla.

The problem is that the code in vanilla doesn't account for multiple portals when you are transported to such a level. The code goes over the list of traps, trying to find a magic portal. You would come out of whatever portal is first in that list, regardless from where you're coming.

The code is here:

For making the VotD the portal hub, I had to fix this in UnNetHack. It wasn't that difficult but it was so not necessary to add this to vanilla. Bhaak (talk) 08:35, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Oh cool, something to cite when I update the article! --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 08:39, 27 October 2023 (UTC)
Ah, thanks to you both! Not where I thought the problem was, but more or less the type of thing I thought would cause it, i.e. that something would break if you had more than one portal per level. -Ion frigate (talk) 23:54, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

Zombie Mines

Regarding SLASH'EM code, I just peeked at it again - does that substitution only happen for player dwarves and gnomes? --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 01:39, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, that bit of code is confusing, but Race_if is referring to the player. Because of the way NetHack uses actual monsters to "build" the player, the properties it's checking against (PM_DWARF, PM_GNOME) are in fact the same as some of the substitutions it's making. Race_if is an alias to "urace.malenum == (X)" in you.h, and the slightly more usefully named "urace.malenum" is (I think) defined in u_init.c as part of the struct (equivalent to a class in Java, it's an arbitrary data store; priests, pets, and shopkeepers also have structs) that accompanies the player.
NetHack's code is confusing, to say the least, but this very much squares with my own experience - lawful and neutral non dwarf/gnomes find plenty of peaceful (living) Mines inhabitants -Ion frigate (talk) 06:17, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

And the substitutions that replace them with undead in SLASH'EM only apply to those player races, yes? --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 06:48, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, only to player gnomes and dwarves. It doesn't even check if the monsters being substituted would have been peaceful - just that the player is a gnome or a dwarf, and they're in the Gnomish Mines. -Ion frigate (talk) 07:11, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
All I needed, thank you. I imagine they would be de facto peaceful to all available dwarf/gnome roles. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 07:28, 8 November 2023 (UTC)
No problem; and yeah, they would be, but if someone decided to add something like the Convict role to SLASH'EM, gnomish and dwarvish ones would still see a zombified mines, even though the living one would be hostile as well. Hard to say whether that would be intended behavior.
And I see you found my longer write-up at Gnomish Mines - feel free to edit it for style/brevity. -Ion frigate (talk) 07:41, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

SLASH'EM kobolds

Split off the page proper into each of the monster pages and made a redirect of it - I feel like it isn't needed anymore but I'm leaving that up to your call. Also wondering if you can't supply a bit of basic strategy stuff to the new monster pages. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 23:52, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Ah thanks - yeah, I'll put up some basic strategy sections. I think you're probably right that we don't need the base page anymore, though of course we'll want to check "What links here" for all such pages. -Ion frigate (talk) 07:04, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
Which is... what I normally do - there's only a reference on a talk page and a user page. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 07:15, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Zouthern animals

Just split off the articles for a proper monster class page - poking you to see what you can offer for each article far as SLASH'EM is concerned. I'll pass over each article individually after some well-needed rest. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 18:00, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Sure, I'll take a look through them. -Ion frigate (talk) 21:40, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Elven arrows

Does the multishot bonus for SLASH'EM elven arrows only apply when firing them from a bow? --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 17:22, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, it only applies to firing them from a bow (but works for any bow, not just elven ones). The relevant line in dothrow.c is 161 - it checks if you have matching ammo and launcher (or are using darts, daggers, or shuriken) before applying any multishot bonuses, including that 1 in 3 chance for elven arrows. -Ion frigate (talk) 18:10, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
Noted. Thanks. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 18:21, 24 November 2023 (UTC)