Talk:Gypsy

This is specific to SLASH-EM, right? Could it be marked appropriately?--Ckbryant 15:15, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Good point. Done, though someone who knows SLASH'EM better than I should probably add more, such as a monster template. --Marcmagus 17:32, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

If you get infinity twice, the gypsy says "I wish I wasn't here!" and disappears. I don't think it teleported, it was a non-teleport level. I'm too shy to edit the wiki. D: --82.6.93.160 14:11, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Additional stuff

Added some minor stuff to the article. I did not add a strategy section; and gypsies are certainly full of exploitable strategies.

Gypsies can be reversed genocided, have a 100% chance of giving a wish with sufficient time and credit, and it's easy to get large amounts of credit if luck is maximized (and still possible even if not). Thus from a single wish it's possible to get 120 wishes, although you'll lose some overhead to wishing for magic markers for scrolls of genocide and charging (or wishing directly for them, if unidentified and not a high-luck wizard).

"Cheating" at 3 card monte is discussed in this spoiler. There is one thing to add; the spoiler does not mention taking advantage of logarithm rounding. With maximum luck, a bet of 999 credit has a 36/37 chance of resulting in a delta of 0, while a bet of 1000 will always result in a delta of at least 1. Thus, rather than using the freebie on a large bet that is guaranteed to increase "monte luck", it is better to use a bet of 999 which will almost always result in you keeping the freebie. Even if going for large bets, it's usually worthwhile to consider trimming the number down to all-nines (e.g. 9999 credit instead of 12000) to lower the delta by 1.

There is also "Yendorian Tarocchi", an unimplemented game that is mentioned in the source and the in-game gypsy help. I don't know if it should be mentioned in the article though.

Qazmlpok 18:20, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

What's this?

"You have drawn the 18 of trumps (Judgement)." "The vision is hazy." --720 12:44, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

It seems like she was looking for the Quest but couldn't find it (that's what that card is supposed to tell you). Did you by any chance reverse genocide gypsies? I believe they can't spot places below their current dungeon level - I know I've seen the Vlad card fail all the time, with gypsies near the Castle and upper parts of Gehennom. And it fails with the same message; but the only way I can think of to get a gypsy above the Quest level would be reverse genocide, although there might be some weirdness if you somehow skipped that level (hole, trapdoor). -Ion frigate 14:20, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes. Thanks. 720 14:45, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

I know this is incredibly old, but I'd just like to add that a gypsy told me the location of the high altar (DL61) even though the maximum I've descent was to DL11. It happened in the gnomish mines, just below minetown where I reverse genocided gypsies. Many other visions (Tower, Magician) never worked, though. ——Jundavr (talk) 12:21, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Loophole

Reverse genociding gypsies is very, very easy, and using them for wishes - even easier. I think that's really big loophole - with 120 wishes, You can do almost everything what You want. Blessed genocide everything is possible, get army of Solars, just almost everything. I think SLASH'EM version of vanilla DevTeam should do something with it - for examle, limit of wishes from gypsies, value of exinct other than 120 (for examle 3, just like erinyes or 9, like nazguls). What do You think? ——S.K. 22:31, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Meh, if you can drum up the gems/gold to get the 120 wishes out of reverse-genociding gypsies, then wishes probably aren't really that valuable to you any more. Outside of greater golems, you're not going to get enough gems to get more than maybe 10-15 wishes, and if you're running into greater golems, you're probably in Gehennom, by which point gypsies are generally common enough to give you all the wishes you'll need. Even greater golems only add maybe another 30-40 wishes (you can't reverse-genocide them), so outside of some serious farming you're going to run out. Don't forget, you don't get anything back from gypsies by killing them - and don't try, they're *nasty* opponents.

As for the things you've named: blessed geno'ing everything is pretty easy to do with magic markers, which can be made from polypiling (though wishes would admittedly speed things up). You can get an army of Solars by altar scumming as a lawful (if you're not lawful, just convert after the Quest). Basically, 120 wishes isn't that broken - it's less than what you can get from pudding farming in vanilla (it's actually nerfed in SLASH'EM), and by the time you could actually get more than a few wishes through reverse-geno'ing gypsies, you can probably get what you need or want some other way.

As for solutions to this particular problem, there's a very simple one: make gypsies ungenocidable. But as I say, it's hardly necessary.

-Ion frigate 06:00, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

"if you can drum up the gems/gold to get the 120 wishes out of reverse-genociding gypsies, then wishes probably aren't really that valuable to you any more" - as I wrote in main article, You can get very big credit from even 1 zorkmid and get wish - I know, I did it from 300 gold (in Sokoban, with reverse genociding) seven times, without pain. It's little boring, but possible and easy. About killing gypsies - even Archon can easly kill them, but in fact, only reason for this for me is only keeping neatness - looking for right Gypsy among 50 other - when you going to have a lot wishes - can be really annoying. So just get rid of useless gypsies that gave you wish and reverse genocide again. Also, killing peacefull gypsies on your own hand can lower luck (if I'm not wrong), so Your "blessed figurine of giant shoggoth" can be now cursed. So, MR, c?oG, + any amount of gold = 120 wishes. I think it's big loophole. ——S.K. 22:16, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

It's a big loophole, but SLASH'EM is filled with other such things, and it's no worse than pudding farming in terms of breaking the game and is probably even more boring. Yes, you could get 120 wishes, but once you have a tame Solar and a magic whistle you don't need much more. It's far from foolproof but it's still enough to wipe out almost anything. On the other hand you could just play as a doppelganger and turn into a giant shoggoth on demand - I find that to be exceptionally game breaking. Or you can get up to level 29 as a lawful, pray when you need to be healed, and you have a 66% chance of getting a tame solar without using a single wish. -- Qazmlpok 22:32, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

You're right. About doppelganger - I played it, and I just wonder - are this role have any disadvantages? Not only giant shoggoth on demand is game breaking, but - for examle - even any form on low level is like amulet of life saving. On level 4, You can just wander around as baby x dragon or something, and - when You die - just polyself again. Also, doppelganger can start with =oPC (I think it's bug - for example, noone can start with /oPolymorph and =oPC). --S.K. 22:43, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

I think it's good idea to forbid any means of polymorph control for doppelgangers in SLASH'EM leaving only chances system ((monster level - your level)/5) --S.K. 22:57, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Doppelgangers can't #twoweapon. That's about it. They have superb stats (all except charisma, but if you poly into a foocubus you get 18 charisma), can poly at will from level 1 and get poly control at level 9. You only need 20 power to turn into ANYTHING, the remainder is made up with nutrition which is easy to recover. Polymorphing also isn't quite an "oLS - if you die from anything other than hp loss you're still dead, and if you have polymorph control (and you do after level 9) you lose max HP. Additionally /oCancel will automatically revert you to human form AND take away max hp if you aren't unchanging or magic resistant. They're the most laughably unbalanced part of the game; see User:Qazmlpok for two examples. I've spent some time trying an inventoryless game, and it's actually very possible thanks to polyself. Maybe that'll be my third screenshot someday. -- Qazmlpok 00:21, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

"About killing gypsies - even Archon can easly kill them, but in fact, only reason for this for me is only keeping neatness - looking for right Gypsy among 50 other - when you going to have a lot wishes - can be really annoying." - There's a really simple solution to this problem. Name gypsies who have given you a wish (with 'C'). There's no need to kill them, and no benefit from doing so if you're doing it via a pet. -Ion frigate 02:25, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

But if You have big amount of gypies, You must use far look command to make sure who can grant You wish, or cancelling #chat when You realize that you #chatting with called gypsy - I'm right, or missed something? But it's still ony for comfort.

@Qazmlpok - I saw Your screenshot before. Really nice work. --S.K. 22:18, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

If it's that bothersome, just read each scroll of genocide on a new level. Then you'll have around 5 gypsies a level, which isn't that overwhelming. -Ion frigate 13:12, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Infinite wishes

There isn't a limit to how many wishes you can get if you wish for a statue of a gypsy every time you get a wish. Since stone to flesh'ing a statue doesn't respect extinction (neither do wishing for statues), with enough patience (and mild insanity) you could ascend with something like 5000 wishes. With enough knowledge, resources aren't a concern to begin with, since you can just maximize your luck and play three card monte ("You win. Wasn't that easy?") and keep betting 999 coins and alternating cards so you almost always get the "Wasn't that easy?" part. If you don't, just keep betting 1 coin and wait until you lose, next time you'll get the "Wasn't that easy?" again, which will ensure your next win, and you can farm credit easily that way. A strong pet, such as a mind flayer or a dragon can easily take care of the cancelled gypsies (healing spells recommended) and clear the level (I usually farm wishes this way in sokoban). As a final remark, after about 20 wishes you'll probably already have everything you need to ascend and become overpowered, so if this is to be attempted, it would be a nice idea to just keep wishing for statues as soon as you don't need wishes anymore, and as soon as reverse genocide starts failing (or you can check for the gypsy count in #vanquished) you can stone to flesh the statues.

Polipiling boulders and statues doesn't seem to result in a gypsy ever, but I haven't checked the source for this. It's trivial to create statues, tough, since all you have to do is cast polymorph on a bunch of easily generated objects (such as stones) until you create a golem and bash it with a footrice corpse, or let a digging monster go wild on a level and use the boulders. --Jundavr (talk) 01:16, 11 March 2018 (UTC)