Talk:Smoky and milky potions

Perhaps this page should be called "smoky and milky potions", as I don't think milky potions merit their own page, but true rumors links to milky potions. Ekaterin 13:31, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Clarification needed

Clarification is needed on the following point: does the chance of summoning only apply while unidentified, or does it still work after the potions have been identified?

Potions requiring Mitigation

The identity of the smoky potion can present the question of how to safely consume a hazardous potion. This table assumes you've already blessed them so you are not confused by booze or can voluntarily end levitation. It would seem that invisibility, polymorph and paralysis are the main headaches.

Potion	Cost	Weight	Blessed Result	Mitigation
sickness	50	20	Lose 1 hp, abuse Con	Quickly recovered
confusion	100	20	Confusion, abuse Con	Unicorn horn or Heal
hallucination	100	20	Hallucination	Unicorn horn or Heal
sleeping	100	20	Sleep	Resistance
blindness	150	20	Blindness	Unicorn horn or Heal
invisibility	150	20	Invisibility	Carry Mummy Wrapping
polymorph	200	20	Polymorph	Polymorph control
acid	250	20	Lose 1-4hp, abuse Con	Resistance or recover
oil	250	20	abuse Wis	Quickly recovered
paralysis	300	20	Paralysis	Free action

--PeterGFin 18:16, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Bit of thread necromancy here, but for polymorph, unchanging is better - even controlled polymorphs are likely to shuffle your stats, which is usually undesirable. Also, for paralysis, a locked closet is a decent substitute for free action, although by no means perfect. -Ion frigate 09:09, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

You can always go for "master mind flayer" instead of your own race, that cuts down on stats changes. --Tjr 14:16, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

Worn dragon scales or mail of any color will also work. 220.255.2.63 12:52, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

True, but both of those break polyselfless; PC gives you the choice of likely stat-shuffling or breaking that conduct. Unchanging does neither; granted, PC is more useful overall and more common I believe, but unchanging is better for this specific purpose. -Ion frigate 11:19, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

I added the table with some changes to the article. I removed the Heal idea: the spells won't cure hallucination, blindness or confusion, and it's absolutely not worth using up alchemizable potions of (extra|full) healing for this purpose, not when a unicorn horn is perfectly sufficient. Also, I didn't mention the dragon scale mail idea - you have to wait out each polymorph, because subsequent ones *will* destroy your dragon scale mail, in addition to being totally random. -Ion frigate 11:34, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

The idea is to rehumanize after each dragon polymorph, e.g. by casting spells at yourself or throwing stuff up. But yes, it's a corner case that would clutter up the article. --Tjr 14:29, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Doesn't that cut your rehumanized hp in half, in addition to possibly taking some max hp? Or is it just SLASH'EM doppelgangers who have that problem? -Ion frigate 18:13, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

In vanilla your hp is cut in half. Losing max HP is slash'em specific; IIRC you lose half of the maximum HP of your previous form if you have polymorph control and rehumanize from HP loss or get zapped by a wand of cancellation. I can't recall if it is doppelganger specific, but it's definitely slash'em specific at least. -- Qazmlpok 18:54, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Huh? In none of my speed runs, I lost any base form HP or maxHP from rehumanizing. --Tjr 19:06, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Max HP is SLASH'EM specific. Losing half of your HP is also present in vanilla. It only occurs upon rehumanization caused by HP loss, not any other source (e.g. natural timeout, another polymorph). -- Qazmlpok 21:25, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

That's a myth - in vanilla don't take damage from rehumanizing. 1) I don't see anything in the code chain that halves natural hit points (mattacku,hitmu,mdamageu,rehumanize,polyman). 2) rehumanize is called exactly the same way by the timeout as by HP loss (timeout.c, line 194 versus mhitu.c, line 2051). 3) I have plenty of experience playing polyself-based speed runs, and I know I have reverted to almost fully healed base form. --Tjr 07:18, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

SLASHEM does cut HP and maxHP, see mhitu.c in SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F2, line 2555 --Tjr 07:24, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Note, however, that worn dragon scales or mail do have an advantage, because they give absolutely no chance of feeling like a new foo; controlled polymorph still gives a small chance of that. 220.255.2.68 08:29, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Ghost

Is the chance of a ghost being summoned from a milky potion based off the djinni count or something else? 75.58.121.153 11:47, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

It's the same formula, but based off the ghost count rather than the djinni count. -- Qazmlpok 12:10, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Ghosts summoned I assume, not total ghosts generated? 75.58.121.153 12:17, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

No, total ghosts generated regardless of source (guaranteed in level, from haunted temples, and of course from milky potion. I'm not sure about bones files). Same with djinni, actually - the guaranteed djinni on the plane of air do count against smoky potion djinni. -- Qazmlpok 12:21, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

So once I reach the Valley of the Dead, the chance of a ghost becomes microscopic? 75.58.121.153 12:28, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Advantages of Potion Identities

I like to think about the advantages and disadvantages of having smoky potions be this or that. Anything that monsters will quaff is bad, since they will sometimes waste a djinni summoning. Potions that are easy to make (like sickness) or find (like object detection) are good. I think the best is probably fruit juice - it is pretty common already, and you can get more by canceling booze or see invisible, dipping an amethyst into booze, or dipping a unihorn into sickness (which itself one of the more common types and easy to get from alchemy). Its effect is mildly helpful (although it can be annoying to have to wait if you are satiated and have a large stack of them - the only real downside). The worst possibility is undoubtedly polymorph - one of the rarest potions, no way to alchemize it, needs a lot of preparation to quaff safely, and each one you quaff is a lost opportunity to polymorph a junk magic item in the hope of getting a marker. Fyr (talk) 04:40, 9 July 2014 (UTC)