Talk:Dragon

Disintegration Resistance

If I understand correctly, the latest edit by 75.18.174.213 states that black pudding corpses are another source of disintegration resistance.

WTF?

--Gneek 14:39, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Baby Dragons

How much does it take for baby dragons to grow up into adults, i. e. at which experience level is the dividing line? Why did my hatchlings have XP11 (stethoscope), the article promises XP12 base? -Tjr 08:39, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

I asked myself the same questions, so I looked up the code at http://nethackwiki.com/wiki/Source:Makemon.c#grow_up

The lines 1414-1419 describe the maxhp for each level (most of the time level*8) and line 1454 looks up wether the new level is equal to the base level of the next form. That said, I would assume a baby dragon to grow up at an hp-count of 120 points (15*8).

--178.201.42.42 18:41, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Silver Dragons might also have cold resistance

The one I'm blasting with Cone of Cold doesn't seem to be affected by it, anyways. Anybody want to double check?

Just checked with a tame silver dragon and a blue jelly. "The silver dragon is mildly chilly". Makes sense, as they breathe ice at you. The corpses do not give cold resistance though. -- Qazmlpok 21:34, November 28, 2009 (UTC)

DSM in SLASH'EM

I would actually allege that DSM is easier to come by in SLASH'EM without a wish, although perhaps a little later in the game. SLASH'EM has the Wyrm Caves, with 24 random D at dungeon level 20 or so, very likely to contain at least a few adult dragons (generally around 4 or 5), as well as randomly generated dragon lairs. The increase in base level does mean they appear later on, but the longer dungeon means you will likely see more of them. Also there are guaranteed gray dragon scales on the Lawful Quest, although one needs a wand of cancellation to make those useful. -Ion frigate 01:55, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

My strategies for making DSM in nethack early on always involve polymorph. I either lock a pet in a polytrap into I get a good dragon, or I turn into an adult female dragon and lay eggs. The former does not work at all, due to how polymorph works in SLASH'EM. Due to the massive level difference and how damn weak baby dragons became in SLASH'EM, it's too difficult to do the latter for more than 1 dragon at a time. It's perfectly possible to spend a few thousand turns goading monsters next to your baby dragon until it grows up, only to have it not drop the desired scales when it dies. In Nethack I can simply raise 4-5 dragons at a time and be almost guaranteed to get an early DSM; plus I don't have to worry about killing the dragon myself, as I can simply untame the lowest leveled one and have the others kill it.

Or, if I don't want to use either polymorph method, I usually head for Fort Ludios and hope that one of the 4 dragons there are of a useful color. Failing that, I'll probably run into some before the Castle, and then there's 4 guaranteed ones at the castle. The increased difficulty of adult dragons, plus adults dragons no longer being the only possible random D, means that adult dragons are simply rarer in SLASH'EM than in Nethack. For the Wyrm caves to generate adult dragons (unless there are guaranteed adult dragons in there. I don't know how to check this and the article here simply says D) the character would have to be at least level 20. I don't think that's terribly likely at dungeon level 20. Same with Dragon Lairs; according to the article here, you're simply guaranteed D, not adult D. I'm not really seeing any reason why dragons would be more common in SLASH'EM through random generation, you lose the guaranteed adult dragons, and the polymorph tricks are nerfed. The only way I see it being easier to obtain DSM in SLASH'EM is the guaranteed GDS you mentioned on the Lawful quest (which I missed when I went in there, since I didn't want to deal with the arch-lich or trying to get inside that area), but even that's of no use without a wand of cancelation, and of little use to a character that wants silver or deep dragon scales. -- Qazmlpok 02:46, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

I certainly agree with you about the polymorph tricks. I myself never use those, but you are quite right they are nerfed in SLASH'EM. SLASH'EM, however, adds a useful one if you polymorph control, which is to polymorph into a giant shoggoth and kill One-Eyed Sam. I've never had that fail, even when Sam had an amulet of life saving. Also, it gets you his shield of reflection and speed boots, all with nice enchantments (+3 to +5, generally)

The Wyrm Caves always seem to have some adult D; I just tried it in wizmode with an XP 1 wizard, and still found 3 or 4 adult dragons there. I think that generation of "24 random D" is different than normal generation, just as things like antholes and beehives don't respect extinction. My experience in SLASH'EM though is that in general, one encounters many more monsters (and thus my average ascending score is somewhere like 8-9 million, as opposed to 5-6 for normal nethack), and thus many more dragons. Also, in SLASH'EM summon nasties can create silver dragons. Admittedly, by that one time you'd probably hope to have DSM, but it's still possibly useful.

Also, I would think that the general increased depth of the dungeon in SLASH'EM, particularly of the larger, open Dungeons of Doom, would compensate for the increased difficulty of dragons in terms of frequency (in addition to the fact that two new dragon types have been added into the mix, both with useful scales). I guess it's all a matter of opinion though; in general you won't get DSM before reaching dungeon level 20 or so in SLASH'EM, but I'd say it's easier to get once you're there. -Ion frigate 06:26, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Is monster generation biased in the Wyrm Caves, not only the starting population? In that case, you could create monster farm for dragons on a permanent Elbereth. -Tjr 00:55, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Wizard mode tests strongly suggest that it isn't; the monsters just seem to be random. Dragons themselves are more common though; they have a frequency of 3 (rare, I think) as opposed to 1 (very rare) in vanilla, though this is somewhat diluted by the large number of monsters added. -Ion frigate 03:01, April 7, 2010 (UTC)

Dragon Names in UnNethack

So I am going to try and create a list of the dragon names in UnNethack I haven't associated them with there type yet.

• leviathan
• tatzelworm
• chromatic dragon breathes acid
• lindworm
• guivre breathes frost
• sarkany breathes poison
• amphitere breathes fire(I think)Wolfwood (talk) 18:40, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
• gold dragonWolfwood (talk) 19:04, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

• wyvern leave scales so I don't know if they are ported from SLASH'EM or are a name for a dragon since I don't recall them leaving scales in SLASH'EMWolfwood (talk) 19:29, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

• Draken breathes disintegration rayWolfwood (talk) 19:51, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

The dragons in UnNetHack are randomized. Their breaths, resistances and colors are different in every game. For example a dragon that is breathing frost, could be what in vanilla is a white dragon or silver dragon. You'll know for sure if its scales will reflection a ray. --Bhaak (talk) 20:09, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Oh I feel sorta stupid now. How do you go about wishing for scales? I haven't gotten a "true" wish yet. Do you have to ask for "draken scale armor" or how does that work?Wolfwood (talk) 20:23, 10 June 2012 (UTC) Might as well keep the list just so there is a list of the dragon names.

Dragon armor have now an unidentified (e.g. "wyvern dragon scales") and an identified name like "cold dragon scales". You can wish for scales with non-magical wishes, as they are as in vanilla, but only if you have identified the dragon armor you will get what you wished for. But there are "gold dragon scales" which seem to be the favorite wish in UnNetHack. --Bhaak (talk) 20:32, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

If you have seen a lindworm breathe frost in your game, do you then know that every lindworm is a "white dragon"? Can you then wish for cold dragon scales? Once you know that this particular dragon is a lindworm and breathes frost, can you then see whether another dragon individual is a lindworm, or do you need to identify each individual separately? --Tjr (talk) 08:06, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

"If you have seen a lindworm breathe frost in your game, do you then know that every lindworm is a "white dragon"?" - yes, for this game. "Can you then wish for cold dragon scales?" - yes, but wishing for unidentified scales/scale mail will produce random DSM. "Once you know that this particular dragon is a lindworm and breathes frost, can you then see whether another dragon individual is a lindworm" - yes, it is name of monster type Bulwersator (talk) 08:11, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Dragon Icons

The pictures of the vanilla dragons include an extra dragon (shimmering?). Can someone fix that? --174.1.76.168 05:53, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Unclear Wording: Note 4, disintegration + amulet of LS

The note says: "Corner case: an amulet of life saving is never destroyed by the blast, but it does not die instead of an undead or non-living monster. This case can only arise if a living monster wearing an amulet has been polymorphed."

What is "it"? Can't be referring to the amulet; objects don't die. Please write out whatever the pronoun stands for. Netzhack (talk) 12:30, 18 November 2017 (UTC)

Dragon-Babysitting segment from the Knight article

Cleaned up the Knight page by removing a very dubious and wordy section. Taming, raising, and riding a dragon may be of interest to dawdlers and roleplayers, so perhaps the text (visible at this diff: https://nethackwiki.com/mediawiki/index.php?diff=137974&oldid=136423&rcid=88420) can be repurposed here on the Dragon article, or in the Riding article. It should not be general advice for knights, as it will waste tons of time without contributing greatly to the player's survival, and other roles can choose to play petless if they really want to bank on finding dragon eggs and babysitting the baby dragon until it is rideable and/or dead. Testbutt (talk) 08:57, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Sounds good to me, I'd see about putting it here since it's dragon-specific strategy. EDIT: Maybe also tailor the Knight's strategy section to reflect actual gameplay rather than being entirely steed-centered while we're at it. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 03:03, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

And scrape that last part, it's been done! Bare minimum there's a solid-ass foundation for experienced Knight players to build on. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 02:15, 16 March 2021 (UTC)