Forum:Winning impossible with Wiz-Hum-Mal-Neu

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Seriously. I've been playing this off and on since 1996, and with focus over the last few months. I'm trying to learn a single character: Wizard. I've read the strategy on this wiki for Wizard, and I'm immediately stopped at step one:

   early game wizards should try on each and every
   non-cursed piece of armor they find in order 
   reduce armor class as quickly as possible

Sure, fine. You need an alter to determine BUC status. In 100 games, I've only TWICE lucked into finding altars in the first 4 levels of the game. Beyond those levels, I die almost instantly because I have no armor.

Secondly, all this searching takes massive amounts of energy, and I die of starvation EVERY TIME. The only times I've managed to survive more than 30 minutes is when I'm lucky enough to be generated with the Ring of slow digestion (which has also happened twice in about 100 games).

Since my success still depends 100% on luck of the items I'm generated with, and the map of levels 1 and 2, it makes me think I'm still missing something fundamental about the game. My "record breaking" run over the last hour is attached here: 2010_12_26_231115.ttyrec

Davek 06:44, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Use your pet to curse-test the armor. Also, you do know you can eat fresh corpses, right? Not all of them are safe to eat (especially before you have poison resistance), but you'll learn which ones are OK (or just look them up here). If you're weak or fainting from hunger, you can also #pray for food from your god. (Just don't do it too frequently.)

Also, if you're dying of starvation, you might want to search the upper levels less thoroughly and just head down to Sokoban; there's usually plenty of food there. Of course, you'll also encounter tougher monsters that way, and wizards can be fragile, so let your pet do the fighting for you, use your spells and any missile weapons you find to help, and use the E-word a lot (preferably before the monsters are next to you). Running away can also be good strategy, at least if you're faster than the monsters you're facing (so don't be burdened; leave your spellbooks on dlvl 1).

Sometimes curses may not even matter; an early mithril-coat (or DSM from bones) may be worth wearing even if it's cursed, especially if you're planning to do Soko before the Mines (where mithril is more plentiful). You can always get it uncursed later, once you find an altar or a scroll of remove curse. --Ilmari Karonen 08:40, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Watching expert players is perhaps the quickest way to learn the right priorities of the various activities. On NAO, you can either use dgamelaunch mail or ask them on Freenode why they did things as they did. If all else fails, you can watch ttyrec recordings. Use Rodney's !lg command to find good ones. --Tjr 12:29, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Wizards are diffcult roles in the beginning. There are three main reasons this is the case, most of the time: the first is a disregard for engraving the sacred E-word and respecting your deity; the second is that strategies fail to emphasize haste properly; and the third is that, realistically, most wizard strategies appear counter-intuitive to surviving early game squishiness. Ducking into the Gnomish mines for throwing daggers, dancing around monsters so that your pet kitten becomes a housecat or a large cat, and in the process it eating all the corpses do not help with issues of nutrition. The first one, additionally, risks killing you easily if the gnomes or dwarves get lucky more often than you do. Putting on metallic armor for its AC is fine but, if you do, you probably have committed yourself to finding reliable throwing weapons, e.g., the dagger route, or other non-melee attacking methods. Swapping armor and cloaks every time you run into a squad of mordor orcs so you can take advantage of Force bolt while they're at a distance is not a viable option and your Blessed +1 Quarterstaff won't give you an edge in melee.

Minetown is probably going to be out of your reach for some time. Rushing to Sokoban is still the best method of survival you have; don't waste much time exploring, not only because of nutrition but also because of monster spawning. Food, a strength-building puzzle, and a powerful (though not always immediately helpful) item await you. Remember you don't absolutely have to get the item now, especially if you think the Treasure zoo will be too much for your squishiness. I usually get to Sokoban by character level 6 earliest, with my pet a housecat or better, and get to the door of the zoo by level 7-9. I'm not saying those are ideal levels, especially for the zoo. Train your spells as much as you can and, even if you find metallic armor, remember to let your pet do only as much of the work you aren't prepared to do yourself - don't let it fight to the death. --FJH 21:57, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Winning with Wizard

I thank you all for the help. I've tried before to fight down to Sokoban, and I have yet to succeed. I will try harder. Still, just about every time I hit this problem in the first few levels:

• I accidentally get into a fight because I can only see one square ahead of myself
• I win, but have only a few hit points left, so I run up a level
• I wait for my HP to recover, because I don't start with any healing scrolls or magic
• I then die of hunger while waiting to heal.

Very frustrating. --Davek 00:59, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

"I accidentally get into a fight because I can only see one square ahead of myself" is an occupational hazard of playing humans; many players prefer other races instead for that reason (perhaps a gnome to keep your character combination otherwise the same). You may also want to use Elbereth extensively in order to avoid taking damage, although it has problems of its own. Ais523 01:03, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

You may want to try some movement tactics that use the speed system to avoid taking damage as much as possible...for instance, let monsters move next to you on their own initiative, allowing you to get the first hit. Also, you don't always need to recover all your HP before you keep moving. And as ais523 said, make liberal use of Elbereth. Personally, I actually go to the Gnomish Mines first, and rarely die because of it, but that's just personal preference. Scorchgeek 03:27, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I should also add that you should kill and eat a floating eye (though not using melee!) as soon as you can--once you have that and a blindfold/towel and start doing telepathy checks regularly, monsters won't be able to sneak up on you anymore. Also, I'd encourage you to join us on IRC: channel #nethack on Freenode. We'll be happy to give you more advice when you need it. (If you play on NAO, someone will probably be happy to watch your game and tell you where you should probably go next too.) Scorchgeek 03:48, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

A relatively safe way to explore corridors without telepathy or infravision is to let your pet walk ahead of you. Specifically, whenever your pet moves ahead, follow it. When it doesn't, wait (perhaps searching while you're at it) until it does. It's a bit slower than just charging ahead, but still faster than running away to heal every time you meet a monster.

Speaking of which, if you're getting knocked down to low HP, that suggests that you're fighting monsters that you shouldn't. Some tactics you should try are:

• If the monster is slower than you, you can just run away from it. If you're not sure how fast a given monster is, you can always check here. You can then lead the monster to your pet, or into a room where you can see and kill it with ranged attacks. Or you can apply the hit-and-run tactics suggested by Scorchgeek to kill it while running away.
• If your pet happens to be behind you in a corridor, you can displace it and let it deal with the monster(s). In rooms, you can sometimes run circles around your pet, keeping it between you and the monster. Carrying a pet treat (e.g. tripe ration) in your inventory makes your pet more likely to stay close to you.
• If you can't run away, the next best solution is Elbereth. Using it early and often can help your survival rate a lot.
• There are other, less common tricks for keeping monsters away. For example, applying a mirror at some monsters will scare them away. Some instruments can also have that effect. If the monster you meet happens to be domestic, throwing any food at it will at least pacify it, and maybe gain you a new pet.

--Ilmari Karonen 17:29, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

I tend to play the early and middle part of Wizard games as a multi step process:

• The initial phase: This lasts until the sum of the DL and XP is 6. During this phase I play as semi pascifist, I use Elbereth, running away and most important my cat to try to avoid rising my XP. The only monsters I prefer to kill myself are newts. Most others I leave for my cat to kill. During this phase I try to explore as little as possible of each level, bringing my cat with me down as soon as possible. The purpose of this phase is to populate as many as possible levels with monsters with base level 3 or less, maximizing the possibility of getting poison resistance and telepathy before needing these intrinsics. Allowing my cat to level up is a nice bonus.
• Phase 2: Exploring the already visited levels fully, lowermost first. During this phase I try to level up as fast as possible. Finding useful shops and altars are nice. Oracle might also be at DL 5, if this is the case I will break the statues searching for spellbooks. If I find an altar I try to keep my pet away from its level an start working it as soon as possible (XP 3 for co-alligned altars, XP 5 for altars needing conversion). Getting Magicbane early is a good thing! I tend to stop working altars as soon as I have Magicbane this to be able to wish for an artifact later if I find a wand of wishing. (The wished for artifact tend to be PYEC) As soon as possible during this phase I try to price test any found daggers, switching to them as main weapon as soon as it is safe. (Generally not when still XP 1) Another important goal during this phase is to find useful armor. I also tend to loot shops if possible. (Credit cloning) A common pitfall is to do Altar work without enough food. (Relying on prayer for food isn't an option during altar work.) From the moment I have Magicbane until I reach Expert in Dagger I tend to play mostly as a Combat Wombat, and might very well wear Mithril; Weight, AC and effects on spellcasting all needs to be considered when picking armor at this stage. (As long as you keep your Cloak of Magic Resistance MC shouldn't be an issue.)
• Phase 3: Finding and completing Sokoban. Breaking the statues on the Oracle level if not done earlier.
• Phase 4: Reaching Minetown. Sometimes Minetown and Sokoban is done in the reverse order, depending on the dangers present. (If the Sokoban stairs are on a Big Room level I tend to go for Minetown first :-) )
• Phase 5: Reaching Mines End. For the luckstone, some other valuable gems and hopefully some useful spellbooks or potions. ("The Mimic of the Mines" is a dissapointment, "The Gnome King's Wine Cellar" is better, but I normally prefer "The Catacombs")
• Phase 6: Finding the quest portal
• Phase 7: Completing the quest Locate level. Before going any further on the quest I tend to do some more altar work. Strong artifact weapons, spellbooks and holy water are my goals. The only reason I delay this altar work to this point is to be able to wish safely for PYEC. If I know that there are more than one artifact generated I tend to work altars as soon as possible. Before continuing on the quest I need a secure way of removing cursed objects (In plural) Either holy water, (Blessed) Scrolls of Remove Curse or being skilled in Clerical Spell and knowing Remove Curse. It is also best to sacrifice for artifacts before visiting the Quest Goal level, as the creation of The Eye of the Aethiopica will make it more difficult to get the shiny weapons.
• Phase 8: Finishing the quest.
• Phase 9: Finding and looting Fort Ludios. The money goes to the priest(s).
• Phase 10: When reaching XP 18 an having Water Walking boots I will try to get Teleportisis. The extra level to avoid problems if I loose a level due to bad effects from Foocubi. Water Walking boots is needed to be able to dip potions (Trying to walk into water without them tends to teleport you).

For the rest of the game I play fairly standard: (Standard for a strong wizard that is.) Leveling up using Wraiths and Foocubi is fairly safe with Magicbane, but be careful not to cancel the Foocubi by accident. I also tend to move my main stash to a container under one of the boulders in Sokoban as soon as I have The Eye of the Aethiopica. All players playing wizard have some favorite spellbooks, early and in the middle game mine are Magic Missile, Identify, Remove Curse, Charm Monster and Healing. These are nearly always useful. Some others like Create Monster, and Knock are very useful in certain situations: It is nice to have Create Monster when doing altar work, but most of the time it isn't hard to get Magicbane without it. Knock is nice early but looses most of it's power as soon as you find a Key, Lock-pick or Credit Card. (It is still useful in Minetown due to the guards) Extra Healing is very nice to have, but without the Healing spell to train the spell category it is dangerous to rely on it. Identify and Remove Curse suffers from the same kind of problem but are relatively easy to train in safe situations. My wish preferences are fairly standard (Silver Dragon Scale Mail, Speed Boots, PYEC ...) Ring, Wand and Amulet preferences are situation dependent. --Kha 20:13, 15 April 2011 (UTC)