Talk:Gehennom

it should be noted that Gehennom is the Jewish version of hell. --84.229.49.241 11:49, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

Uncursing two-handed weapons

Can you still apply magic markers when wielding a cursed two-handed weapon? If so, you could carry a scroll of fire, which will never be destroyed by a fire trap, and blank it when needed (either with a wand of cancellation or fountain/pool, such as in Juiblex's Swamp). Kind of an ungainly method, but when Gehennom is 20-30 levels deep I could see it being worthwhile. I could also see this being useful for an atheist who wants to wield a dwarvish mattock or a unicorn horn, or possibly the Tsurugi. -Ion frigate 05:48, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

If you had a wand of cancellation you could just drop your inventory and cancel yourself. It is possible to write without hands (but not engrave...). It's a good idea, but I think that in Gehennom water is rare enough to make blanking the scroll difficult, and outside of gehennom carrying around potions/scrolls isn't nearly as dangerous by the time cursing monsters become a threat. Another option could be to carry around blank paper; even if it burns away from a fire trap you can just take another one out, as blank scrolls are relatively plentiful and cheap compared to a written scroll.

Another way to free yourself from cursed weapons (and armor) is polymorph. Polymorphing into a tiny monster or one without hands will cause your weapons to drop; the tiny monster will also cause cursed armor to fall off as well. This would require polymorph control (or a good deal of luck) and a wand of polymorph, but fortunately wands of polymorph are safer to keep in open inventory and have other uses as well. -- Qazmlpok 12:33, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Even if you had a wand of cancellation, canceling yourself might not be desirable - it will set the enchantment of your weapon to +0, which would require at least 3 scrolls of enchant weapon to fix for a +6/+7 weapon. Still, it's a good point that for somebody who ends up with a cursed 2H weapon that isn't their main one (using a mattock to dig, for example), self-cancellation is a good idea.

Gehennom has 3 or 4 sources of water: Juiblex's swamp, the two fake Wizard's Towers, and if you've done the Invocation, the moat around the vibrating square. They're not that badly spaced throughout the levels; it'd almost always be shorter to go to one of them than to leave in order to pray. Particularly in the endgame this might be useful, as Moloch's Sanctum is full of item-cursing priests of Moloch. But I can also see the logic that by this point you should have safe routes mapped out, and thus might as well just carry a scroll of remove curse in open inventory.

I certainly think this idea would have very marginal uses: non-spellcaster who wants to wield a 2H weapon, which would seem to mean samurai who want to wield the Tsurugi, possibly people doing a dwarven racial ascension, and anyone who really likes Cleaver. -Ion frigate 19:50, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

There is a better solution: Drop 1 holy water in Sokoban or the Castle, and carry the Eye of the Aethiopica. The Orb of Fate or a cursed scroll of teleportation also work. Even if you don't have teleport control, levelport will take you up - in that case, dig down with a wand and uncurse your weapon at the Castle. Tjr 00:39, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

What about just always keeping your weapon blessed, and taking the holy water (or scroll of remove curse) out of a bag if it happens to get unblessed by the black glow? That seems like it should happen rarely enough to make this practical. Slandor 00:46, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Good point. However, you can typo and wield cursed junk, e. g. when clearing a path for your pet. This once happened to me in an 8-conduct game, I had a damn hard time lifting the curse. Tjr 03:27, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Why should fire resistance be a must?

Fire traps can be avoided by searching, to as high a degree of certainty as you feel necessary (which should always be done anyway to protect your potions and scrolls). If you want to be 100% certain, you can dig the walls and walk in: traps are never generated in walls. 220.255.2.67 13:52, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Because both those options take time and are fairly tedious to do fully,

But that really doesn't matter. 220.255.2.36 15:37, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

and the consequence of hitting a fire trap without fire resistance is pretty bad.

As for protecting potions and scrolls, that's what bags are for. -Ion frigate 16:07, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

That doesn't cover those you should carry with you. 220.255.2.36 15:37, 16 October 2011 (UTC)

To expand a bit: nothing in the game is truly a "must." Magic resistance? No, not if you have enough scrolls of scare monster, potions of hallucination, and simply avoid Death on the Astral Plane. Reflection? Somewhat trickier; amulets of lifesaving as well as travelling in undead form comes to mind. The point being, one can make an argument for any resistance that it is not truly necessary. It is described as such when the consequences of not having it are pretty dire, either in damage to your character or simply in tedium. -Ion frigate 16:11, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

I think the basic summary might best be explained: Gehennom is filled with fire traps; deal with it. Fire resistance is good as far as the character's own health is concerned, but covers just one of the complications that occur from stepping upon a fire trap, particularly involving worn equipment. "Having fire resistance to protect against a fire trap is good; having a few options to evade a fire trap is better." --FJH 17:10, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Not a self-answering question re instadeath

I think there's some confusion here. I'm wondering with what version did lack of fire resistance in Gehennom switch from being an instadeath to simply a not-great idea. -Actual-nh (talk) 23:16, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

One would wager that was when it started being Gehennom and stopped being Hell. We could always verify through source dives to be 100% sure, and I really should be doing due diligence anyway...

...no but seriously, when in doubt, just check the source code or wizmode. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 23:24, 6 February 2021 (UTC)

Is there anyplace the source code prior to 3.6.0 is available to browse, instead of downloading multiple versions? Thanks! -Actual-nh (talk) 22:34, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

... have you tried searching the wiki or NetHack's site? --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 22:40, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes (did so prior to asking the question). No luck - all sources I have located are compressed prior to 3.6.0. -Actual-nh (talk) 01:00, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

I can say that it was prior to 2006, from Wiki page histories. -Actual-nh (talk) 02:19, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Just found the source code on the wiki; looking now. -Actual-nh (talk) 02:22, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

I see the cause of my confusion. Previously, the page had stated "Although it is no longer an instadeath to enter Gehennom without fire resistance" - which implies that at some point when it was Gehennom lack of fire resistance was lethal. I was therefore looking for something after 3.1.0 (and being mystified when searching through the 3.1.0 code to find where it had entering Gehennom without fire resistance being lethal...). -Actual-nh (talk) 03:07, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

No, recommended =/= necessity. And? I never wrote otherwise. -Actual-nh (talk) 03:59, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

A link to the NetHack 3.1.0 source code can be found in the relevant article. It can be verified that NetHack 3.1.0 does not make entering Gehennom without fire resistance an instadeath, while it is in NetHack 3.0.10. - Andrio Celos (talk) 02:31, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

Can't find in code re no lawful random generation in Gehennom

I've been looking and can't find in the code where lawful (as opposed to G_NOHELL, which is true for all lawful minions AFAIK) monsters are prohibited from generating in Gehennom. Anyone know where it is? (I'm partially wondering because it makes no sense for the lairs of lawful demon lords...) -Actual-nh (talk) 00:53, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

That's me not being specific enough - lawful monsters aren't randomly generated in Gehennom, though lawful demons are still generated in appropriate areas. (e.g. the VotD graveyards, Asmodeus's lair) Honestly, it's generally best to look through the wiki as well as the code to see if the question isn't answered elsewhere. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 00:58, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Ah. I was specifically wondering about the random generation, actually (the lawful demon lords was a side topic; note "partially") - sorry for being unclear, but thank you for the clarification. -Actual-nh (talk) 01:05, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

NP. Think you might want gehennom.des or something in that vein. Happy diving in any case. --Umbire the Phantom (talk) 01:18, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

By the way, the check is in src/makemon.c in NetHack 3.6.6, line 1473. As mentioned above, it only applies to randomly generated monsters, and not to lawful demon princes, demons they summon or summon nasties. - Andrio Celos (talk) 03:24, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks! -Actual-nh (talk) 04:04, 3 May 2021 (UTC)