NetHackWiki:Ask an expert/Archive4

NetHack can be a monstrously complicated game, so it's not unnatural to seek help from time to time. Conventional sources of wisdom are:

• The Oracle - the intended source of information for unspoiled players.
• rec.games.roguelike.nethack
• #nethack on irc.freenode.net

Additionally, a number of knowledgable players are active on this wiki, so feel free to ask a question below and somebody is sure to answer it eventually. Long discussions are probably more suited to the newsgroup.

Start a new section for each question, as in the example below.

Where can I find candles?

I'm standing on the vibrating square and haven't got any candles. What can I do? --Jayt 22:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

You can go back to Izchak's shop in Minetown to buy some, or in the rare event that there aren't enough there, you can wish for them (wishing for 7 candles always gives 7). Additionally, candles are non-magical, so polypiling non-magical tools should yield some. --Jayt 22:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Corpse Weights in code

In the Source Code what files define the corpse weights? -- PraetorFenix 08:43, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

They're in monst.c#line101. The first number in that line says giant ants (and also their corpses) have weight 10. --Jayt 18:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

artifact that defends against lycanthropy

what is the artifact that defends against lycanthrophy? -- PraetorFenix 04:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It's Werebane, though lycanthropy isn't strictly the same thing as Disease. --Jayt 09:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Sliming and stoning (which I added) might not be disease either. --Kernigh 00:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

blessing a spellbook

what does blessing a spellbook do? i.e making it blessed not just uncursed does it improve the chances of learning the spell or the chances of casting the spell? -- PraetorFenix 04:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

It improves your chance of successfully reading it to 100%, regardless of intelligence, level, or anything else. Reading a difficult spellbook will still take time though. --Jayt 09:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Help

excuse me, i have no idea what this wiki does, and no sane way to find out.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.135.225.41 (talk • contribs)

It's a wiki about a game called NetHack. Wikihack:About is a good starting point. --Jayt 18:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Other ways to detect portals

So what other ways are there to detect the portals on the elemental planes but a confused scroll of gold detection? --ZeroOne 18:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

You can apply a crystal ball to look for the "^" symbol, or you can wield the Amulet of Yendor - it gets hotter/colder as you move towards/away from the portal. On the Plane of Fire, you can usually just wander around for a few dozen turns and some random monster will walk into the portal, locating it for you. This works on the Plane of Air too, but might be more dangerous with all those air elementals. --Jayt 22:12, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

OK... It's just that crystal balls are rare and rather heavy, and I prefer wearing an amulet of life saving. I was hoping I could use confused spell(book) of detect treasure, or maybe potions of object detection... But oh well, I just wished for a magic marker and wrote those scrolls. And ascended the rogue! --ZeroOne 03:18, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Congrats! :-) You don't have to wear the AoY - just wield it (although being without a weapon is arguably worse than being without an amulet of life saving...) --Jayt 09:32, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Cursed +127 SDSM

Is a cursed +127 SDSM a good thing or a bad thing? What does it do?

It's a very good thing. It lowers your AC by 136 points. You're not likely to see it outside wizard mode though. --Jayt 12:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

But I thought cursed items never could have positive numbers for enhancements... --SuperNoob 13:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Cursed items are generally not generated with a positive enchantment. A cursed +127 SDSM could have been made by enchanting an SDSM to +127, then having it become cursed. --Eidolos 16:03, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I suppose it is possible to get a +127 SDSM in a normal game... but (if I'm reading read.c correctly), you have to beat a 1 in

21944782437016158958332050500547590938152671932471204366240232132860
74748191754073989579486819782102897582526762590976636536338964437347
64917970225473879053552030300069193852806126183263367682906719009191
50457190862917549218837044569298374492392247132041075741073778617343
27922945226738057847741678225944256904819373984051863593670410240000
00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

chance. That's not an accurate calculation; your actual odds will be worse. Much easier to stick to pudding farming for protection :-) --Jayt 16:57, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Autopickup and gold pieces

I've been fooling around with the autopickup exceptions, and for the life of me I can't figure out how to make it so that I always pick up gold pieces. "<gold" "<*gold*" and "<$" don't work. --Flatluigi 03:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Autopickup exceptions is for discriminating within an item class (so you, say, only pick up certain potions). I think what you want is:

OPTIONS=autopickup
OPTIONS=pickup_types:$

I use $!/="+? Good luck! --Eidolos 04:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Aggravate monster and stealth?

I am playing SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F2. I ate a large cat (stupid mistake, I should not eat corpses while hallucinating) and now have aggravate monster as an intrinsic. I later found elven boots, so now I have stealth. How do aggravate monster and stealth interact? Should I be worried? --Kernigh 00:42, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

From a cursory glance at the NetHack source, it seems like aggravate monster completely nullifies the effects of stealth. See the big comment and code of monmove.c#disturb. Aggravate monster has additional bad effects, like making your pet dog become untame faster. Whether it's at all the same for SLASH'EM is anyone's guess. :) --Eidolos 01:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

The code you point to seems to say the opposite -- ignoring other factors it says if (!stealth && AggMon) then wake up?-- 4.246.45.192 01:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Good point. Sorry Kernigh! --Eidolos 05:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

The code in SLASH'EM is src/monmove.c#line208. This is not the part of the code that I am familiar with, but now that you suggest it, the code does look like (!stealth && AggMon). I guess that I should worry about my pets, then. I have no idea what happened to my pet dog Fido, maybe it went untame and my pet horse killed it while I was not looking? I tried my magic whistle on a few different levels. --Kernigh 18:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

How do I kill/avoid archons?

On the Elemental Plane of Air I'll get swamped by summoned monsters from archons, such that in a few moves practically the whole level is filled with all the monsters I havn't genocided (including more archons). How do I deal(kill/avoid) with archons on this level? The closest I've come to getting to the portal was by using many scrolls of taming while confused, but I was hopelessly bogged down in monsters... Chris. 14 Sept 2006

Archons shouldn't summon other archons, but a few relevant tactics for summoning storms are:

• If you can get close to the archon, kill or cancel it before anything else
• Use conflict
• Move fast; don't stop to kill anything unless you have to
• Avoid the archon - it will only summon monsters around itself
• Be extremely tough and dangerous, then muscle your way through the crowd!

--Jayt 21:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

I'd like to second Jayt's second and third points. Using a conflict makes the monsters focus on each other and you can sneak between them. You must also be very fast and never burdened on the elemental planes. Just locate the portal and run for it. Being invisible is also useful and displacement will help you too. --ZeroOne 21:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice, just to follow up - I am running NH v.343 on Pocket PC and Archons ARE being summoned (big problem), so even if I run up and kill'em quick in 3-4 hits it will still summon at least one other archon (not to mention the plethora of other critters. Conflict doesn't seem effective since they (multiple archons) are also casting 'monsters aware of your presence' spells so they all go back to wailing on me. I'll have to try wands of teleport and avoidance... That or change the version I'm playing. Chris. 15 Sept 2006

While I'm not familiar with that particular port, I'd have to say that it's probably the same game, just with a different interface. Meaning the mechanics are the same and all. Anyway, according to J. Ali Harlow's Monster Manual, Archons have 80 MR.. which means that conflict is, on average, only going to affect them every one in five turns. Conflict is more for the critters they summon. In any case, I can't stress how important evasion and wands of teleport are on the Planes. Good luck! --Eidolos 20:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Feeling of inadequacy message?

I've just started NetHack last night, and found something odd that, as far as I could tell, is not addressed here or in any easily found spoilers. I was Chaotic and found a Chaotic altar really early, like on the 2nd or 3rd level down. I figured it'd be a good chance to play w/ praying and offering. I offered some corpses, and they were consumed by fire, but then the message said that I "had a feeling of inadequacy". Does anyone know what that means? Am I too piddly to have offerings do anything at that level?

You only have feelings of inadequacy if your deity is angry with you and the corpse you're sacrificing is not enough to mollify him. Did you ever get a message that "<deity> is displeased."? Usually it's something obvious; things that anger deities include praying too soon, killing a pet, and sacrificing a coaligned unicorn. To mollify him you'll need to sacrifice big corpses (especially since you're chaotic; nonchaotic deities are easier to mollify). See the How to Appease an Angry God spoiler. --Eidolos 23:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Also (and this is unfortunate), you probably won't find big enough corpses for awhile - it goes by monster level. Chaotics have it even harder, as that list shows. Lotte 02:01, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Basic questions

Hello :)

Been playing Nethack since sometimes, haven't yet gone after level 6 or 7, and i still got some basic questions which maybe someone could answer ;)

Sorry for those basic questions :) -- Poppu 23:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Starvation

• how do you avoid starving to death? I usually play a wizard, and i often feel like i'm gonna die of starvation. So i often rush without letting time to resplenish my mana or hp -- Poppu 23:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

It's hard to tell why you're starving without observing you play, but there are a few possibilities. Firstly, are you eating monster corpses? They're probably the most important food source in the dungeon. Just be careful of poisonous and other dangerous corpses (see the article linked above for more info).

Spellcasting also consumes nutrition, making you more hungry. For Wizards, though, this effect is reduced or eliminated if your intelligence is high enough (see hungerless casting).

Also, if you're really in a tight spot, praying to your god might result in a full belly. This should be unnecessary, though, and makes it harder to use prayer to escape other sticky situations. -- Killian 01:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

If playing as a wizard, collect and throw daggers at your enemies. Avoid using your mana because, as Killian already pointed out, consumes nutrition. ZeroOne 13:05, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Spellbooks

• what is the point of reading a spellbook again and again? -- Poppu 23:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Spells that you know at the start of the game, or learn from a spellbook, only last 20000 turns. (For reference, a typical ascension might take 40000-80000.) After this time, you will forget the spell, and you'll need to read the spellbook again to be able to continue casting it. -- Killian 02:16, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Hidden doors

• how do you figure where there are hidden doors, without magic mapping? -- Poppu 23:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

For low-level characters, searching and kicking (or force bolt) are the main ways of discovering hidden doors. Note that searching will only find doors adjacent to you (and won't always succeed), and kick and force bolt essentially require you to already know where the door is (which is quite often the case). Kicking an ordinary wall will hurt your leg.

You can also apply a stethoscope to walls, if you have one. This is guaranteed to find a secret door if you apply it to the correct square (proveded it's not cursed), making it much faster than searching.

A wand of secret door detection is perfect for the task, but is largely unnecessary, and you won't always have one. I've never used one outside of Moloch's Sanctum and the Elemental Planes. -- Killian 02:16, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Dungeon and experience levels

• what level should one at eg dungeon depth 5? 10? -- Poppu 23:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

There's no simple answer to this one. I generally find that if I clear out each level before descending, and run away when necessary, I'm ready to handle each dungeon level I encounter. -- Killian 02:16, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Experience level 10 is way too high at dungeon level 5 -- you'd probably run into resource issues (not having enough food, for example). Common wisdom suggests keeping your experience level and your dungeon level about the same until (I'd say) 2 or 3. After that you don't level up quickly enough to warrant staying on a level for too long. Killian's advice is pretty sound though - descend after you've explored the current level. --Eidolos 03:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions :) I'll try to use those advices :)

I do eat corpses when i can, but sometimes it's hard anyway ;)

Poppu 22:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Losing one of the Ritual items

• I just defeated the Wizard of Yendor, but I can't find The Book of the Dead. Isn't he supposed to drop it? I'm afraid he might've thrown it into the moat when he saw he was losing.

Is it possible that he teleported away, and you only think that he's dead? I don't think it's likely that it's in the moat. Try drinking a potion of object detection, or cast detect treasure. If you can't, though, you can get items from underwater a few ways:

• polymorph into a swimming or nonbreathing monster, and jump in!
• apply a grappling hook at the water. Careful! you might get dragged in.
• Fill the moat with a boulder or freeze it, then dig pits in its place. I think water may rush in to fill the hole if there are water-filled spaces nearby, so be careful.
• zap a wand of teleport. This will move items out of the moat, but there's no telling where they will go. Maybe even back into the moat!

Well, it's not in the moat... Can he cast Double Trouble more than once per appearance? Maybe he just keeps cloning and teleporting away. I killed the one that stole my quest artifact, though... I thought he'd be the one to have it. Supposing he's teleported away, he's no longer on the level. How do I find him now?